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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 1834 times)

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BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #105 on: Friday 22-Feb-2019, 09:29* »
It shouldn't be but there are politicians involved so not holding my breath.

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #106 on: Tuesday 26-Feb-2019, 08:35* »
Labour officially mentioning second referendum now. It could actually be on.

Donít blame them though if it falls apart. The division within the Tories is solely to blame for not being able to bring the country together in a reasonable compromise.

Never trust a Tory. Every decision they make, everything they deliver, is only for the benenfit of them and their mates.

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #107 on: Tuesday 26-Feb-2019, 14:57* »
Are you seriously suggesting that Corbyn and his mates are any different?

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #108 on: Tuesday 26-Feb-2019, 15:29* »
Are you seriously suggesting that Corbyn and his mates are any different?

Where did I assert that?

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #109 on: Tuesday 26-Feb-2019, 20:25* »
"Never trust a Tory. Every decision they make, everything they deliver, is only for the benefit of them and their mates"

You might have said "Never trust a politician"

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #110 on: Tuesday 12-Mar-2019, 17:43* »
Looks like Terry M is going to take another kicking this evening. What happens after she gets spanked in Unmeaningful Vote 2.0? We must be heading towards a General Election or another referendum, surely?

Fearless Fred

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #111 on: Tuesday 12-Mar-2019, 18:18* »
A General Election wouldn't solve anything regarding Brexit. How could the likes of Rees Mogg and Irritable Duncan Syndrome seriously campaign on the same platform as someone like Ken Clarke & Dominic Grieve wrt Brexit? They are diametrically at odds. Similarly in Labour, for all his protestations I think that Magic Grandpa still hankers for Lexit so that he can found a true socialist paradise, which would be completely antithetical to the likes of Cooper & Starmer etc. Throw in that a General Election is fought on multiple issues combined with the FPTP that leads to pretty much every government in the last 30 years being elected by a minority of the voters who voted, and no-one can claim a real mandate for whatever their Brexit manifesto pledge is.

In five years time I think we will be looking at a fundamentally different political landscape. Neither of the two main parties is going to survive this whole fiasco unscathed. I think the Tory splits will be larger than Labour, but I can see both parties splitting.

I was chatting to a colleague at work about all this today as we were trying to work out what we would need to do with a shipment of products that is currently making its way by container from China for us to distribute globally after they land here in early April. we both came to a realisation that perhaps the best thing for the country is that the two large edifices of the Tory & Labour parties have left us fossilised in early 20th Century politics. It would be far better for there to be more parties, spread out across the various political spectra, and that Governments were formed of multi-party coalitions after elections, rather than a single party in control of the Executive and the Legislative arms of government. I know it's easy to say "Yeah, but Italy...". True, their system is chaotic, but Germany seem to do okay with that sort of system, as do the Scandiwegians, Belgians, etc. Forming a consensus that the majority can agree to may not be good "TV Punch & Judy" politics, but it is surely better than what we have at the moment.

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #112 on: Tuesday 12-Mar-2019, 19:45* »
I agree FF, although the LibDems paid a heavy price in the last election, I for one thought that the coalition worked well by curbing the extremes of both parties.
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alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #113 on: Tuesday 12-Mar-2019, 19:48* »
Itís a very very tricky situation. I didnít expect it to be this bad, and for the deal to be so comprehensively disliked....It is after all only the first stage of the departure and gives a platform to build the future relationship.

I still donít think anyone really knows what they want, why they want it etc. in relation to Brexit.  Itíll never get resolved. Itíll never be accepted. The division is too profound.

Last year I was convinced people might settle on a soft Norway style relationship that would be a good compromise. We are some way off that.

I agree with whatís been said about political reform. We need a new type of activism and intelligent engagement with the process.

Iím sorry for those that may be disappointed but I just canít see Brexit happening now any time soon...

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #114 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 11:15* »
I voted Remain.

To say nobody knows what they want in my view is a comment restricted to Politicians. In my view every politician knows exactly what they want and is self evident.
The people know exactly what they want too and have already said so.
If there is a second referendum I will vote but I will vote Leave because I passionately believe that it is anti-democratic to ignore an existing mandate simply because it is not the answer you wanted.

Further down the line you can revisit the whole imbroglio, hopefully in a more measured and informed way. As Remoaners have been stating that the referendum result is flawed because all those silly brexiteers were ill informed and easily swayed by propoganda promises, so it will be good to have experienced operating as an independent nation outside the EU so we can all make a truly valued judgement.

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #115 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 13:45* »
I voted Remain.

To say nobody knows what they want in my view is a comment restricted to Politicians. In my view every politician knows exactly what they want and is self evident.
The people know exactly what they want too and have already said so.
If there is a second referendum I will vote but I will vote Leave because I passionately believe that it is anti-democratic to ignore an existing mandate simply because it is not the answer you wanted.

Further down the line you can revisit the whole imbroglio, hopefully in a more measured and informed way. As Remoaners have been stating that the referendum result is flawed because all those silly brexiteers were ill informed and easily swayed by propoganda promises, so it will be good to have experienced operating as an independent nation outside the EU so we can all make a truly valued judgement.

The problem is though that "leave" was not clearly and consistently defined, and the implications of doing so weren't known.  The way "leave" was defined and voted for by many is completely inconsistent with the political and legal reality of the situation we are in.  It's cake-ism.

A referendum or cancelling Brexit probably is the right thing to do, IMO, now.  There was no mandate for the deal Theresa May has presented (everyone hates it and no-one will vote for it).  There is no alternative other than no-deal, which would violate our existing international commitments, which we can't do.

Why is more democracy, i.e. confirming that people still want to proceed with a decision through another referendum, so undemocratic?  It has been proven that we can't have what was promised, therefore the decision to leave that was made on that promise is invalid.
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Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #116 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 17:46* »
The problem is though that "leave" was not clearly and consistently defined, and the implications of doing so weren't known.  The way "leave" was defined and voted for by many is completely inconsistent with the political and legal reality of the situation we are in.  It's cake-ism.

A referendum or cancelling Brexit probably is the right thing to do, IMO, now.  There was no mandate for the deal Theresa May has presented (everyone hates it and no-one will vote for it).  There is no alternative other than no-deal, which would violate our existing international commitments, which we can't do.

Why is more democracy, i.e. confirming that people still want to proceed with a decision through another referendum, so undemocratic?  It has been proven that we can't have what was promised, therefore the decision to leave that was made on that promise is invalid.

Alex,
Where you say the implications of Leave arenít known, you could say the implications of remain arenít known either. No one knows where we would be 5 years down the line if we were to have remained or left. We can have what was promised, which was ďleave the European UnionĒ.

ďReferendum on the United Kingdomís membership on the European Union
_______________________________

Vote only once by putting a cross [ X ] in the box of your choice
_______________________________

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?
_______________________________

REMAIN A MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION [  ]
_______________________________

LEAVE THE EUROPEAN UNION [ X ]Ē

That was what was promised Alex. In the words of David Cameron at the time:
ďIt will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

Your decision.

Nobody elseís.

Not politiciansí.

Not Parliamentís.

Not lobby groupsí.

Not mine.

Just you.

You, the British people, will decide.

At that moment, you will hold this countryís destiny in your hands.

This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

And it will be the final decision.Ē

That was what was promised. It just goes to show, the Leave side could dig up many instances of what now look like to be lies.

I voted Leave and if I had to again vote I would. Democracy would be no more in this country if we were made to vote again, and I believe in democracy. Any trust our great nation would have had in our politics and democracy would be lost if Leave isnít honoured. Not a half in half out. Leave
« Last Edit: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 20:20* by Everyoneís a Quinner »
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Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #117 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 19:48* »
Ironic now, as the so called expert MPís who naysay Leavers by claiming anyone who voted Leave didnít know what they voted for, are now the MPís who donít know what they are voting for or have voted for.

They've tried to take away the one major bargaining chip we had in the negotiations. Not to worry, itís non binding and the next legal step is leaving with no deal on 29th March 2019.
« Last Edit: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 20:21* by Everyoneís a Quinner »
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alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #118 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 20:01* »
Lols at no deal. Itís off the table now and was never going to happen.

Their own stupidity has wrecked the possibility of Brexit. Lack of understanding about trade, the EU, law. Could have been possible to have a moderate and sensible compromise but everyone was too stubborn and entrenched.

Itís over folks. At least for a few years.
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Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #119 on: Wednesday 13-Mar-2019, 20:07* »
Lols at no deal. Itís off the table now and was never going to happen.

Their own stupidity has wrecked the possibility of Brexit. Lack of understanding about trade, the EU, law. Could have been possible to have a moderate and sensible compromise but everyone was too stubborn and entrenched.

Itís over folks. At least for a few years.

Lmao oh but we are leaving. And if a select group of sour Remoaners stopped trying to steel the wheels off of the locked up bike, securing both a great deal and getting on with it wouldíve happenend.

Thereís a danger of getting over excited here. Itís non binding and we are leaving legally as it currently stands on 29th March 2019
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