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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 845 times)

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BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #15 on: Friday 02-Nov-2018, 10:08 »
It wasn't me guv.

RodneyRegis

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 04-Nov-2018, 20:10 »

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 04-Nov-2018, 20:36 »
Interesting graphic. Pivotally Scotland and NI both Remain.

I find what is revealed when you drill into the vote very interesting. The splits and division are prevalent throughout the U.K.

My reading is on the whole:

Young - Remain; Old - Leave
University Educated - Remain; Others - Leave
Urban - Remain; Rural - Leave

I guess itís hardly a surprise that the younger, more upwardly mobile (and inherently more likely to have been in education longer) are doing better under the current system and have voted for the status quo. Than those older (more likely to be having a strop about the local pub being turned into a Polish Deli) and the working class struggling with employment and opportunities under the current system voted for a reactionary leave.

David Cameron really really messed this up and divided the country like no one else has.

Yes Brexit is happening but it absolutely wonít heal those divisions. It will make them worse and the country will be poorer and angrier than before.

Tragedy.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 06-Nov-2018, 08:57 »
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions to these problems without having to run it past a group of unelected self interested people.

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 06-Nov-2018, 09:08 »
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions to these problems without having to run it past a group of unelected self interested people.

Wow - you have a magic solution to get things past the May's Tories and the DUP?  Let's hear about this system?  ;)

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 06-Nov-2018, 09:17 »
Well hopefully we will be able to try and find our own solutions to these problems without having to run it past a group of unelected self interested people.

Seriously though - this is kind of the unhelpful rhetoric that defines much of the nation's views on Brexit and the EU.

There are consequences to everything.  The world is small now and especially wen it comes to regulation, trade, law, policy etc. there are a number of setters.  Europe is the biggest one nearest us and the one we do by far the most business with, such is life.

Being out of the EU we are still going to have to fully comply with all of their regulations if trade and business wants to survive - e.g. financial services, car industry, agriculture - whatever you can think of that might involve even the smallest amount of cross border trade/co-operation.  We will have no say in shaping these going forward

So my challenge to this kind of opinion - is how, practically, do we move forward in such a weaker position?

My other challenge to this type of argument is - what laws specifically have we tried to pass but the EU has frustrated us and not allowed?  Can you detail any of the EU regulations and laws that we have had no say in and are causing us harm?

Free movement is a red herring - we have never taken as many asylum seekers as the rest of the EU; and we have chosen not to enact the regulation that requires EU citizens to leave if they are not settled with a job after 3 months.
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 10:21 »
I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some. Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world. There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from within but frankly I feel there are just too many self interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the table. Its what we do.

On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do alone.

Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 12:20 »
I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some. Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world. There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from within but frankly I feel there are just too many self interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the table. Its what we do.

On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do alone.

Deadly hitting many nails on the head. A open and one world and more options than we will have had in decades 👍🏽
« Last Edit: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 12:25 by Everyoneís a Quinner »

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 16:58 »
I obviously have more faith in the British spirit than some. Observing rules to export somewhere is what we do all round the world already. It may even be a healthy thing to be freed of the Euro shackles so we can plow our own furrow around the world. There are plenty of takers. I can see the argument that to change and improve the Euro Block it is easier to do so from within but frankly I feel there are just too many self interested parties for that ever to happen the way it is currently configured. There is no reason we cannot rejoin the EU at a subsequent point in history, on our terms, with hopefully a much stronger grip on trade around the world to bring to the table. Its what we do.

On immigration, when we are out of the EU, followed closely probably by Poland and possibly Italy we can initiate a sensible policy that encourages anyone from anywhere round the world with skills and required abilities to settle here whilst stopping the flood of economic migrants that we cannot support. These people are a global problem and its not just down to us to resolve the issue. We can help of course but its not something we can do alone.

I hope I donít come across as being deliberately argumentative. Itís not the intention. I really enjoy the discussion and want to get to the bottom of things. Happy to continue this with those that are jnterested!

So...my queries on this are:

1) Is it not the case that a lot of the good trade we do outside of the EU is done on EU trade deals? What makes you think weíd do better alone? What about the significant period (years) it can take to negotiate even one?
2) Migration - what about the point that we already do have powers to restrict movement of EU citizens but choose not to do so? And the fact that itís proven that on average EU migrant are net contributors fiscally? Donít we already have control over ROW migration (that wonít change)?
3) Given so much of our trade an industry is intertwined with the EU, do you have any idea of the quantum needed from ROW new trade to compensate for cutting ourselves off from our EU partners? What might that look like and what industries?

The above questions IMO are somewhat rhetorical, but Iíd love to know your thoughts.

Sadly so much of the argument against the EU Iíve seen in the press stems from a big misunderstanding.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 19:40 »
I think the EU need us just as much as we need them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/the-largest-economies-in-the-world


If those links don't work, what I am trying to say is that the UK is 5th largest economy IN THE WORLD and we stand at 5th also on the list of top Gross Domestic Product. The rest of Europe must be worried about losing our contributions.
« Last Edit: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 19:46 by deadlyfrom5yardsout »

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 20:03 »
I think the EU need us just as much as we need them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/the-largest-economies-in-the-world


If those links don't work, what I am trying to say is that the UK is 5th largest economy IN THE WORLD and we stand at 5th also on the list of top Gross Domestic Product. The rest of Europe must be worried about losing our contributions.

Youíre dead right. They absolutely need us and we need them just as much.

One of the other tragedies is that the EU, in their recent handling of Britain, have demonstrated all of the characteristics that have irritated Brits over the years. They should have taken the chance to be more up front and do a bit of soul searching as to how things have gone so badly wrong. They are equally flawed.

On the other side they must be so frustrated with us. For years we have had wasters like Farage over there, chewing the fat, making a newsance, and wasting space that could have been filled with progressive influencers that could have helped change the behaviour of the out of touch political elite riding the Brussels gravy train.
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 08-Nov-2018, 21:26 »
Thats a good point. Maybe look at it as Farage riding the gravy train of voters here who have only a knee jerk reaction to issues such as immigration, fisheries, sunbeds etc...

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #27 on: Saturday 10-Nov-2018, 07:44 »
Iíve found this guyís blogs extremely interesting. An adamant Brexiteer, he often hits the nail on the head with the criticism of the EU and whilst the tone can sometimes by aggressive - itís good stuff.

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-real-brexit-dividend.html

What Iíve learnt most over the last few months is that we are at risk because of ultras from both sides hijacking the debate. Remainers need to get on with it and shape the future relationship with Europe positively, and Brexiteers need to grasp the technical challenge and stop bickering amongst themselves.

I wish we could just get on with it in a moderate and sensible way that doesnít create chaos.

Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 11-Nov-2018, 01:06 »
Iíve found this guyís blogs extremely interesting. An adamant Brexiteer, he often hits the nail on the head with the criticism of the EU and whilst the tone can sometimes by aggressive - itís good stuff.

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2018/11/the-real-brexit-dividend.html

What Iíve learnt most over the last few months is that we are at risk because of ultras from both sides hijacking the debate. Remainers need to get on with it and shape the future relationship with Europe positively, and Brexiteers need to grasp the technical challenge and stop bickering amongst themselves.

I wish we could just get on with it in a moderate and sensible way that doesnít create chaos.

Likewise

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 11-Nov-2018, 10:43 »
Yes it is an opportunity to really reorganise the way we do things and there is nothing like a deadline to make things happen. There is generally a resistance to change and a liking for the status quo but this is being forced on us and I remain very confident that we will make a good fist of it. Particularly as we can do it our way.

 

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