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Brexit

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guest257:

--- Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Friday 26-Oct-2018, 10:35* ---Well from what I can make of it, that was quite biased to the Remainers side of things although it does make some good points. I seriously hope that all these shark infested "Treaties" are a little easier to renegotiate than is being mooted. After all, it is a Treaty conversion not a completely fresh start.

I did vote in the referendum and see no reason to have changed my mind either way.

--- End quote ---

I voted Remain and would do so again.  But that's not because of any particular love for the EU.  In fact, the EU itself is a pretty grotesque beast of an organisation, and the Brussels elite are well out of touch with reality - it really is another world over there.  The days of big-man politics are over.  I'm actually naturally Eurosceptic and have always been massively against our possible joining of the Euro.

But I voted Remain because the ideas proposed by the Leave campaign, IMO, were low calibre, reactionary, and offered no real positive and realistic vision of an alternative.  Our press has blamed the EU for so many of our self inflicted ills.  Issues now require global co-operation and work - cutting ourselves off from such an organisation seemed folly to me.  Leave politicians are protest politicians - but like the Greens and others, it's far easier to campaign for change o specific areas, but if/when given power and authority to implement them they wouldn't be able to do the first thing.

I think a no-deal Brexit would be absolutely bonkers.  It is the most stupid proposition - you simply cannot just cut off 40 years of co-operation and regulatory and legal alignment like that without killing the patient.

What is the answer then?  Call it off? - I can't see that working.  Keep delaying? - that won't wash either.

Norway is probably the only practical solution to not disrupt trade/jobs/flights/NI border.  Would that appease the Brexit ultras - probably not?  But it's probably the only workable compromise in the timeframe.

Norway, or Remain?  What is it going to be?

P.S - as an aside I find it deeply amusing that Ireland, for so long the oppressed neighbour, is holding all the cards here.  The NI border situation is complex and has always been the spanner in the works.  British Imperialism - this one is for you.

Brown Bottle:

--- Quote --- I seriously hope that all these shark infested "Treaties" are a little easier to renegotiate than is being mooted. After all, it is a Treaty conversion not a completely fresh start.
--- End quote ---

I think the problem is the existing treaties were negotiated by the EU whereas the new ones will have to be negotiated by the UK alone with countries who still have a treaty with the EU. I don't think we'll be in much of a position to play hardball.

deadlyfrom5yardsout:
I do think we underestimate the power of our own economy in all this. We import quite a lot into our wealthy consumer society and this factor alone is enough to make people want to sit down and talk. It is not entirely a one way street.

Brown Bottle:
So negotiating on our own we are stronger than with the other 27 EU member states?

guest257:
I find it hard to see any tangible economic benefit from any form of Brexit. Every time I ask how things will be better the answer is either fantasy or simply not economically based. IMO the problems identified simply aren’t caused by the EU, could have been addressed whilst part of the EU, and certainly won’t be dealt with any differently/more easily post Brexit.

I’ve struggled to accept that people’s desire for Brexit is based on something more than economics. And that they are prepared to accept short term pain for something longer term. To me that makes no sense, looking at the facts.

I’d simply love to hear a proper rational argument for Brexit - how it will make us all more prosperous, with a brighter future than we have now. I find it incredibly tragic that no-one is able to articulate this better. If they did, and I caveat this by saying it must be reality based, they’d be Prime Minister. The country needs it.

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