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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 2545 times)

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Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday 18-Dec-2018, 20:17* »
Seem to recall the Brexiteers propaganda machine were telling us negotiating trade deals should take a matter of a few weeks.

I swear I remember seeing something that discussions with other countries outside of the EU such as NZ, Canada and the US to name a few happened months ago but I could be wrong

Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #61 on: Tuesday 18-Dec-2018, 20:19* »
ďFreedom to tradeĒ ?

Is this not one of the big Brexit myths that has been busted? We already globally trade under eu negotiated deals. Brexit will restrict our global opportunities whilst we deal with the uncertainty as to what extent these deals may be replaced?

Your point about already trading globally maybe so but leaving the eu gives us more freedom, not less.

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #62 on: Tuesday 18-Dec-2018, 21:03* »
Your point about already trading globally maybe so but leaving the eu gives us more freedom, not less.

How exactly? What countries do you foresee that we will boost our trade with through a preferential arrangement to the one we currently have? And to what extent will that exceed the trade we lose through cutting ourselves adrift from our biggest market?

What jobs might these deals create to replace the ones that might be lost due to lack of single European market access?

Would love to hear a positive spin. But sadly thereís no economic argument for leaving.

Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 01:58* »
How exactly? What countries do you foresee that we will boost our trade with through a preferential arrangement to the one we currently have? And to what extent will that exceed the trade we lose through cutting ourselves adrift from our biggest market?

What jobs might these deals create to replace the ones that might be lost due to lack of single European market access?

Would love to hear a positive spin. But sadly thereís no economic argument for leaving.

I, like you Alex, do not hold all of the answers. These things come with time. You canít predict either way how worse or better off we will be. Anyone who tells you our world in the UK is going to cave in is spouting out utter fear mongering nonsense, much the same for people who can somehow give dead certain assurances (at this stage)  we will do better off. What I can say is what I said above which is so clear; be free of the EU means less constraints to how we trade and who with. Itís obvious. One less leache holding us back. I can see us striking deals with many countries. Itís all about our country having a backbone in this process and having faith in ourselves and our country. We are leaving, now we must all bind together more than ever and do whatís best for our country in these circumstances. What doesnít help is the mainstream media choosing what they report to sway the general publics knowledge with one sided views and cloaking the other side of things, the Gary Linekers who really should stick to their day jobs, a number of the big money business bosses who seem to be afraid of Brexit in more personal terms than what it means to our country and the select group of Remainers who havenít and canít let go of the result a democratic decision. I neither like or loath Piers Morgan for example but he makes a grown up point. He wanted Remain but believes both in democracy and since Leave won the vote we should as a country get behind it, pull together no matter what side of the fence we did sit on or still do, unify and make the best of what we can. The lack of spirit some people/media outlets show does not help. We are spineless and need to find our bite again.

We are in such a strong position if we left with no deal. If someone punches you, you punch twice as hard. For instance if the EU wants to charge us £6 to visit the EU, great we will charge them £12 to visit us. Theyíll soon change their minds. Donít tell me they wonít because Europe as a business and as a tourism perspective will always want links with the UK. If we let the EU keep punching us and we donít stick up for ourselves who will, and why would the EU stop. They are doing it for them, not for us remember! Donít let people bully you, it took me years to learn that growing up and the same applies here. It really does. A great number of my European friends agree that it is quite honestly disgusting how our country, our PM (whether you like her or not, she needs to be shown respect by the EU), our government and our people are being treated. They too agree that we should be sticking up for ourselves more and that we really donít seem to be expressing much believe or faith in our country or itís people, and that we should be much more headstrong.

Itís so clear in the water, these coming days you can see members of the European Parliament starting to quake in their boots. Itís written all over Guy Verhofstadt, Jean-Claude and others faces, you can see it in their behaviour, body language, what they say, what they tweet. They can see the storm coming and the nation getting fed up, we donít want to be shafted and we can smell a bad deal when one is presented and we are getting fed up of being bullied by the EU. Enough is enough and as we as the peopleís of the UK are starting to show this, European Parliaments fear grows. If we leave with no deal, we save £39 billion. We would be a free trader much like New Zealand, Australia, Singapore, Canada to name a few. We can pretty much tear up tariffs and taxes on non EU imports, regain control of our fishing almost immediately. The taxes on these goods go straight to the EU. We will become better off as UK people by getting rid of these taxes and tarrifs by leaving the EU. Yet more money saved.

The European Parliament see this and they do not like it, not one bit, and are trying to put us off leaving on WTO terms as much as possible. And they make out as though this is the best deal which it is no where near a good one. It really baffles me seeing as we are in a much better position. If we leave on WTO terms they will come running afterwards for our business. It is a given. And once we do so you will see more countries in Europe wanting to follow suit. Italy, Hungary, Holland are already liking the idea of leaving, the people of France are finding their voices slowly but surely and are coming to realise how low Europe is sinking, and believe me it is sinking. As are the people of Spain, Portugal and Greece. New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Singapore are counties on WTO schemes and free trade who demonstrate good democracy and in turn have great economies. Letís join them. The same canít be said for much of Europe.

Thatís what I can tell you Alex. Our country has become too ďpolitically correctĒ in recent years and too spineless. We need to stand up for ourselves, we are in a much better position than Europe and they need us a heck of a lot more than we need them. We leave with no deal and you watch... they will be biting at our ankles afterwards joining the queue of other countries wishing to do so. And we will not forget the way our country, itís government and itís people have been treated by the EU in all of this.

A big problem with this whole situation is many peopleís perception which isnít helped by the media being so biased and amplifying a one sided story. Many of our countryís people perceive this whole thing rather wrongly. ďGive it to me nowĒ ... ďShow me nowĒ, people wonít believe something until they see it and unfortunately that canít always be the case. We need to snap out of this weakness and believe in ourselves, take this big leap of faith and then we will see what will happen. I am not a fortune teller but what I have faith in is our great country and itís amazing people, our history of willingness to pull through, work hard and go into things positively and headstrong. Believe in something and show trust in ourselves, that is a big factor in what has historically made us successful and what I believe will make us successful!

Letís keep positive, show some fighting spirit and do the business! Mange Tout, Mange Tout
« Last Edit: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 07:55* by Everyoneís a Quinner »

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 09:08* »
I think, fundamentally, I canít agree on a couple of key areas. And maybe this sums up where the country is divided:

1) Europe holds us back in trade opportunities - it doesnít, it creates opportunities (see the Japan, Canada and South Korea deals)
2) They need is more than we need them - they donít (just look at the numbers - there are a lot more of them than us)
3) Itíll be ok if we just believe - it wonít (we need people to engage with the technical detail and challenge - the ignorance about what the Eu is and how it operates from the public, media and politicians is flabbergasting)

Everyoneís a Quinner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 09:53* »

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 10:19* »
Troops on the Ground! Don't back us into a corner!

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 20:14* »
Here is an excellent article. Itís a bucket of cold water in the face of some of the fantasy garbage being spouted by many on both sides.

But in short, make no mistake about it - Brexit is going to be hard, time consuming, costly, make us poorer and give us much less global influence than we enjoy now (IMO!)

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2018/12/13/full-speech-sir-ivan-rogers-on-brexit/

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday 19-Dec-2018, 20:51* »
Have a listen to this, No Deal Brexit bit is sixty minutes into the programme.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06rhy1l

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #69 on: Thursday 20-Dec-2018, 10:18* »
69 minutes....

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #70 on: Thursday 20-Dec-2018, 12:01* »
69 minutes....

Yes, a bit of waffle at the start.

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #71 on: Tuesday 15-Jan-2019, 21:21* »
So what now I wonder?

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #72 on: Wednesday 16-Jan-2019, 18:36* »
Win the Confidence vote, talk to MP's on all sides, fail to find a concensus, crash out with No Deal on 29th March.

BedfordshireBoy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 16-Jan-2019, 20:38* »
Difficult to see any other outcome.

alexfromlondon

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #74 on: Thursday 17-Jan-2019, 08:38* »
Whoa. Seriously? Only a small % of MPs support no deal. Itís way too disruptive on even the most basic day-to-day level. I canít see no deal being accepted by parliament.

Therefore....the problem is there isnít much time to sort anything else out. Article 50 wonít be rescinded but will have to be delayed. The only way the EU will agree to extend it is for an election or a referendum and itís clear an election wonít happen right now.

Therefore IMO itíll break down at the last minute and the only way out will be for an exasperated May to extend article 50 with the promise of a referendum.

Iím fuming that both sides couldnít compromise. An EFTA style arrangement would mean we have close ties and can strike independent trade deals. Weíd be out of the EU.

Anything else is bluster. Remainers should have worked harder to pursue a more mutually agreeable compromise; leavers should have acknowledged the narrow margin of victory and the need to engage and compromise and that their vision of the U.K. in the 1950s is a warped fantasy.

Bunch of idiots.

 

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