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Author Topic: Equality Issues  (Read 1362 times)

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Quinky

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Re: Equality Issues
« Reply #45 on: Friday 23-Aug-2019, 16:48* »
I think we agree on your last paragraph. Nobody has advocated for pay rises based purely on gender. However where I believe there is an issue (again based on the information I've been given) is that "81% of male employees were directors, doctors or in IT, most of whom fell into the upper salary quartile".

On a micro level, I agree that we have hopefully advanced somewhat from "she can't do that job" in most cases but nevertheless in my opinion it is wrong that these (higher salaried) roles are weighted so heavily towards men. On paper there is equal opportunity but for whatever reason there are still roles which are stereotypically biased towards certain demographics. And this starts early - way before careers are chosen.

In the same vein, in the thread about Ugo, there has never been anything stopping people from BAME backgrounds from playing rugby but it is much harder to plough a new furrow. If we don't see BAME players at the top of the game (or female CEOs or male nannies) then it is less likely that these options will be considered.

Somebody has to buck the trend somewhere to achieve the ideal goal we both seem to aim for - complete impartial selection. For me, the pay gap is a symptom of the problem and requires a long term solution. Just promoting people to balance the books (whether women into leadership roles or BAME players into a world cup squad) solves the short-term issue but is counter-productive. If they fail, they add more weight to the arguments against trying again.

On a final point, neither age, experience nor qualification should ever be used to set somebody's pay/level. Track record (i.e. performance) and aptitude should be the only measures. Just because somebody is older, holds more qualifications or has been doing a job longer doesn't automatically make them better.

I agree with your final point. I believe these are as relevant (in most cases) as gender. There are exceptions of course - certain professions (examples off the top my head - law, medicine, structural engineering) MAY see a benefit from higher qualifications.

The first example you quote is one company, and the example was quoted to see how easily the statistics can be skewed. In that particular company they also state another interesting statistic: "However, of Care’s highest paid quartile, 70% are female, suggesting that women are able to progress their careers to our most senior roles." So, most of the higher earners are women - does that hint at men having a lack of opportunities? No. It's purely the way the dice has rolled for that company.

You mention that "there are still roles which are stereotypically biased towards certain demographics". I recommend you listen to Jordan Peterson's comments in relation to Sweden. It's said to be the world's most advanced country in terms of equality and they really push freedom of choice. The outcome is that women and men do opt towards what might be considered typical male and female careers. That's without peer pressure or any kind of social conditioning. But let's face it, as much as SJWs call for more female CEOs' you will never hear them calling for more female coal miners or sewage workers. It seems their version of "equality" is only for the nicer things.

On the subject of BAME players in rugby, why do you think there are hardly any players in the Premiership from Asian/Indian backgrounds? I grew up in an area of extremely high Asian population, and very few of my schoolfriends from that demographic wanted to play rugby. They absolutely (in the main) loved hockey and cricket, and were the mainstay of the school teams. When offered the chance, they simply didn't want to play rugby. Personally I never tried hockey and was useless at cricket, so I chose rugby. I could easily have said that it was harder for me to play cricket as it was primarily Asian boys playing it, but that wouldn't be true. It's all about choice.

 

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