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Author Topic: Equality Issues  (Read 1362 times)

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Yareet

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Re: Equality Issues
« Reply #45 on: Thursday 29-Aug-2019, 17:29* »
With respect, I didn’t say that there are too many Daves. I said that there are more CEOs called Dave than there are female CEOs. And yes if there is no discrimination (whether conscious or unconscious) then there should be more CEOs (and indeed everything else) called Mohammed than there are Dave; simply by virtue of the available pool being larger.

Again, what I said was “hire (and promote) clones of themselves”. If your industry is 70% female, I would hope that there is a similar ratio of female directors to male. My suspicion given you talk of too many male directors is that there are more male directors than female.

That can only suggest that something has either encouraged women not to go for the director roles, prevented them from getting the director roles or made them unsuitable for the director roles.

You have argued it’s all down to their choice and for some it will be. However, I don’t believe that women’s choices alone can turn a 70:30 ratio of all employees into a greater than 50:50 ratio in favour of male directors.

The take out from the Freakonimics show was that women were being … essentially set up to fail. You can read transcript or listen yourself at http://freakonomics.com/podcast/glass-cliff/ - better yet, subscribe. They have some good stuff.

But yes if a woman is finally given the opportunity to interview for a CEO role and is (unusually) offered it and then turns the offer down, then a man accepting the role would unfairly look like bias.

On the one hand, you’re claiming that any perceived bias is actually the result of choices the individual makes. On the other you’re saying that the kids in your own school were encouraged to follow one path or another. That’s exactly my point! Their “choices” are totally shaped by what they see on both a micro (what your parents tell you to do) and macro (what you see in the world at large) level.

So kids of Asian ethnicity are growing up in your school being told to shun sport in favour of academic work. As they get older you saw those within the Asian community who wanted to play sport took up cricket and hockey – not because anybody told them to do so but (I would argue) because those were the sports they saw other similar people (both locally and in the media) playing.

Likewise, poorer black kids from Battersea or Bristol haven’t naturally gravitated to rugby – it’s a game for private school and (until recently) mainly white boys. Messrs Sinckler and Genge show that those boys can get to the top of the game so I (and Ugo it seems) would hope that drives participation.
Think of football. In 1978 Viv Anderson was the first black man to win a senior England cap. The current squad of 25 has 13 black/mixed race players. It would be much harder for those guys to see a path to playing for England (and indeed for the coaches to select them) had others not forged the path over the last 40 years.

My point wasn’t that Maro chose not to row, nor that Pinsent did. It’s that both have the physical attributes to do it, and the opportunity. They had similar education yet I (and I’d guess most people) would be surprised to see Maro in a boat. If he had chosen than route and ended up in the Boat Race or Olympics, I’m fairly sure there would have been a lot of media coverage purely because of his ethnicity.

With regard to you throwing the hammer, again I think you’re agreeing with me. Although you had a friend who enjoyed the sport, “only one threw the hammer” so by definition it was an unusual pastime – I’m assuming you had more than one friend in total!

If the sport wasn’t “presented to [you] on a plate” it is unlikely that you (or anybody) would “go out to find the opportunity”. Somebody has to normalise the decision (be that a sport/hobby or a career/promotion choice) by being the person bold enough to go first.

 

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