+- +-

+-Newcomers Start Here

+-Harlequins/Rugby Links













+-Articles



Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 2494 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

alexfromlondon

  • Senior Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 92
Re: Brexit
« Reply #165 on: Sunday 18-Aug-2019, 11:09* »
I think it would be perfectly reasonable for that % to rebel against them if they patronised them, lied to them, refused to engage with them, had broken electoral law to get into their position, and delivered something entirely different and more extreme to what was promised during their election campaign. Then I think it would be ok to object.

Holding politicians to account is not being a part of the problem. What many leavers donít understand is that having a strong robust opposition strengthens us as it holds those responsible to account to deliver a better solution. It shouldnít be a dictatorship

However Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc donít like that though because they know that when their ideas are challenged, they fall apart as the fantasy that they are.

Quinky

  • Lions Bench
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
Re: Brexit
« Reply #166 on: Tuesday 20-Aug-2019, 09:56* »
I think it would be perfectly reasonable for that % to rebel against them if they patronised them, lied to them, refused to engage with them, had broken electoral law to get into their position, and delivered something entirely different and more extreme to what was promised during their election campaign. Then I think it would be ok to object.

Holding politicians to account is not being a part of the problem. What many leavers donít understand is that having a strong robust opposition strengthens us as it holds those responsible to account to deliver a better solution. It shouldnít be a dictatorship

However Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc donít like that though because they know that when their ideas are challenged, they fall apart as the fantasy that they are.

You stated "I absolutely refuse to be part of a team with Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg". Unfortunately for you, these people are elected. You may not like how they got there, but more people voted for them than for anyone else. That's called democracy. You may decide that people have lied, broken promises, broken laws - but you are not judge and jury. You have no right to decide what they can or can't do. There is a due process for that, and again, if it's followed then you (along with the rest of the population) have to accept decisions that you may not agree with.

Everyoneís a Quinner

  • A Team Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 428
Re: Brexit
« Reply #167 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 02:12* »
I think it would be perfectly reasonable for that % to rebel against them if they patronised them, lied to them, refused to engage with them, had broken electoral law to get into their position, and delivered something entirely different and more extreme to what was promised during their election campaign. Then I think it would be ok to object.

Holding politicians to account is not being a part of the problem. What many leavers donít understand is that having a strong robust opposition strengthens us as it holds those responsible to account to deliver a better solution. It shouldnít be a dictatorship

However Farage, Johnson, Rees-Mogg etc donít like that though because they know that when their ideas are challenged, they fall apart as the fantasy that they are.


Alex, you have to understand that in this country there are different views and perspectives. You canít go around assuming and bellowing our that all Leavers are something, just because little old sour you voted the opposite which was to Remain. I highly respect your wishes were to Remain and I think itís admirable of you to stand by that. But that doesnít mean you have a right to naysay all Leavers all the while branding all of them stupid. No two people are the same, even if there is only two sides in Leaving or Remaining. There is no valid argument when people say ďLeavers didnít know what they wantedĒ or ďThe question should have been more specific on the ballot paper as there are so many ways of going about either leaving or remainingĒ. Because no two people are the same is the exact reason why it was a simple Leave or Remain vote. When you bring in other complexities to the question we will never get any where and people will be squabbling forever more with no clear answer because everyone has a different view on how to Leave or Remain. The vote was a simple question because of this. And with that simple question people took part in voting and the vote ultimately led to a Leave vote. How or why is the governments problem to sort out, the people did their bit in deciding and voting. The most democratic way to do this was two plain options, not 22 different ones. It causes more complexities and even more squabbling. It is not simple and confuses the country even more so, rather opposite to your claims that people didnít know what they wanted. Some people (Leavers and Remainers) didnít know how they wanted to either Leave or Remain and what deals/no-deals to be arranged, they literally just knew what they wanted and their feelings about about the EU were and why they either wanted to Leave or Remain. Thatís their feelings on the EU (the undemocratic corporation, not to be confused with the continent and itís people who are actually quite nice) just for clarification. Itís up to the government to sort out the rest, and to do that they completed the first steps whereby the democratic vote led to leave. The next steps should have been to do it in the way the government feels along with the deadline that if they couldnít decide what to do in the best interests of all involved, they would Leave via No Deal on March 31st 2019. Itís their problem if they didnít pull their fingers out until the final year of debating this as (if you like) and that they couldnít sort out a deal to your liking, you can blame it on them, not the Leavers. There was in this time of 3 years a general election regarding Mrs Mays tenure and direction in which she survived at the time, and then further along the line a vote of no confidence which failed, no wonder, with Corbyn behind it. What should have happened on the 31st March 2019 was to leave with no deal due to our governments (under May) failure to Leave with a deal which was put to vote and among other options where we ended up with people hijacking what was written in the law to leave with no deal. Since then the conservatives fairly had to vote for a new PM from their party, completely fine to do so as this issue is regarding Brexit and technically still their party leading the government for this time period until the next general election. Theyíve done that in Boris Johnson and now it looks finally like there is some clear direction in Leaving (we negotiate a fair and democratic deal for both sides of the U.K. & the EU. If we canít negotiate, where you will see that the UK is trying to but the unelected leaders of the EU do not want to, then we will Leave by November 31st 2019 with No Deal. Finally we have some sense of direction and also a back bone. The ball is now in the EUís court. If they do not want to renegotiate, then we have decided we do not like their current proposal and will leave with No Deal. Fair and square.

If you donít like that, then your chance to voice your opinion on it will be in the next general election where you will have a fair and democratic chance to vote for what you want to vote for, or moreover who. Until such time, you have to surf the wave you are currently on, whether you agree with it or not. Just like the time when the EU elections were cast, it was clear that most Leavers still want to Leave, as well as newly ascertained ones in people now of the legal age to vote, and by once Remainers now being converted to Leave. The vote happened when it happened and in a fair fashion, not brought forward or delayed unfairly. The same should happen in an general election, it should come about when itís due to, not before or after due to meddling of a petty group of select Remainers in government.

I recently read a post on social media which I will now consider going forward:

Before you argue with someone, ask yourself: Is that person even mentally mature enough to grasp the concept of different perspectives?

Because if not, there is absolutely no point


Look I have high respect for you as Iím sure you are a good person, nice guy and you are right to have your views and to express them as is anyone, so long as they donít mean harm. I sincerely mean you no harm in my argument. But I cannot go on further if you canít grasp the concept of different perspectives. Or if you keep putting every Leaver under the sun in the same basket. We are not all horrible and we are not all far right, most of us just donít want to be in the EU.
« Last Edit: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 02:16* by Everyoneís a Quinner »

alexfromlondon

  • Senior Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 92
Re: Brexit
« Reply #168 on: Wednesday 04-Sep-2019, 04:26* »
Great start for Boris...

Lied about talks with EU (there have been no fundamental changes taken forward).

Lost his majority.

Lost his first key vote which will, hopefully, take a mad no deal off the table.

Couldnít happen to a nicer bunch. This is the problem when all you have is tub thumping rhetoric.

Quinky

  • Lions Bench
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
Re: Brexit
« Reply #169 on: Friday 06-Sep-2019, 06:47* »
Meanwhile Jezza finally gets offered the general election he's been clamouring for since the last one, and declines it. Boris is doing a great job of showing him up to be what he is... A professional objector who hasn't moved on from the sixth form common room.

alexfromlondon

  • Senior Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 92
Re: Brexit
« Reply #170 on: Friday 06-Sep-2019, 08:59* »
Boris needs to be given the opportunity to deliver the promises he has made. Itís only fair. An election would be a distraction and just pave the way for more nationalist run thumping. Unfortunately he has no plan to deliver anything and has lied and blagged his way from position to position. Only then have an election, when performance against promises can be put to the test. He will, of course fail.
Like Like x 1 View List

Quinky

  • Lions Bench
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
Re: Brexit
« Reply #171 on: Friday 06-Sep-2019, 13:59* »
Boris needs to be given the opportunity to deliver the promises he has made. Itís only fair. An election would be a distraction and just pave the way for more nationalist run thumping. Unfortunately he has no plan to deliver anything and has lied and blagged his way from position to position. Only then have an election, when performance against promises can be put to the test. He will, of course fail.

Except he's been blocked from delivering on his promise to properly negotiate a deal, by having one option barred.

alexfromlondon

  • Senior Player
  • ****
  • Posts: 92
Re: Brexit
« Reply #172 on: Friday 06-Sep-2019, 18:10* »
Thatís sovereignty for you. Parliament is acting as it has been designed. This is what you wanted, thereís no EU to blame for this.

Still firmly believe a lurch to the right or left, any sort of extreme, is not going to work as the country wonít support it and it wonít get through parliament.

We need moderate sensible compromise, whether thatís staying in the EU or leaving. There have been ways this could have been achieved, but there has been neither the will, political skill, expertise or intelligence to do it.

If Brexit fails theyíve got themselves to blame.

Quinky

  • Lions Bench
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
Re: Brexit
« Reply #173 on: Monday 09-Sep-2019, 14:32* »
Thatís sovereignty for you. Parliament is acting as it has been designed. This is what you wanted, thereís no EU to blame for this.

Still firmly believe a lurch to the right or left, any sort of extreme, is not going to work as the country wonít support it and it wonít get through parliament.

We need moderate sensible compromise, whether thatís staying in the EU or leaving. There have been ways this could have been achieved, but there has been neither the will, political skill, expertise or intelligence to do it.

If Brexit fails theyíve got themselves to blame.
Thatís sovereignty for you. Parliament is acting as it has been designed. This is what you wanted, thereís no EU to blame for this.

Still firmly believe a lurch to the right or left, any sort of extreme, is not going to work as the country wonít support it and it wonít get through parliament.

We need moderate sensible compromise, whether thatís staying in the EU or leaving. There have been ways this could have been achieved, but there has been neither the will, political skill, expertise or intelligence to do it.

If Brexit fails theyíve got themselves to blame.

When you have a winner and a loser, you don't have a compromise. Also, this government will never get a deal through as there is an opposition which seems to serve one purpose - derail whatever the government try to do.

The solution is a General Election. See which MPs still have the support of voters after their actions of the past three years.

The suggestion of compromise is futile. It undermines the concept of "to the winner, the spoils". It's more "to the winner, a little appeasement; to the loser, a share of the prize".

Brexit must happen. Anyone who thinks otherwise must be listening to the musings of a three year old. Probably one with deeply considered views on gender politics.

Everyoneís a Quinner

  • A Team Starter
  • *
  • Posts: 428
Re: Brexit
« Reply #174 on: Thursday 12-Sep-2019, 20:31* »
In all of this and the difference in opinions we have, we must surely all agree on one thing:

The Labour Party have been and still are playing games with Brexit and putting Party before Country. In delaying leaving its costing £250m to keep us in the EU per week, they admit that their strategy and Brexit policy *should they win a future election where we would still be in the EU* is this - Go to the EU to try to get a better deal than Boris, proceed to have a referendum where Remain is an option and then campaign for Remain against their own deal which they would have negotiated with the EU. Bonkers

Quinky

  • Lions Bench
  • *****
  • Posts: 782
Re: Brexit
« Reply #175 on: Saturday 14-Sep-2019, 14:38* »
In all of this and the difference in opinions we have, we must surely all agree on one thing:

The Labour Party have been and still are playing games with Brexit and putting Party before Country. In delaying leaving its costing £250m to keep us in the EU per week, they admit that their strategy and Brexit policy *should they win a future election where we would still be in the EU* is this - Go to the EU to try to get a better deal than Boris, proceed to have a referendum where Remain is an option and then campaign for Remain against their own deal which they would have negotiated with the EU. Bonkers

Agree 100%.

BedfordshireBoy

  • International Bench
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
Re: Brexit
« Reply #176 on: Tuesday 24-Sep-2019, 11:12* »
Supreme Court ruling another twist to this never ending tale.

Carbonm

  • Spectator
  • Posts: 1
Re: Brexit
« Reply #177 on: Tuesday 24-Sep-2019, 18:18* »
In all of this and the difference in opinions we have, we must surely all agree on one thing:

The Labour Party have been and still are playing games with Brexit and putting Party before Country. In delaying leaving its costing £250m to keep us in the EU per week, they admit that their strategy and Brexit policy *should they win a future election where we would still be in the EU* is this - Go to the EU to try to get a better deal than Boris, proceed to have a referendum where Remain is an option and then campaign for Remain against their own deal which they would have negotiated with the EU. Bonkers

But no-one can get a deal through Parliament. Therefore the only options left appear to be no deal which could be disastrous or take the final choice back to the people to have the final say.

 

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Site Statistics

Members
Total Members: 693
Latest: Stefan
New This Month: 5
New This Week: 2
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 28982
Total Topics: 1772
Most Online Today: 42
Most Online Ever: 455
(Saturday 22-Sep-2018, 17:51*)
Users Online
Members: 2
Guests: 10
Total: 12