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Author Topic: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad  (Read 1691 times)

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Bucksquin

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 11:26* »
What about Sam Riley being in the squad, guys? How about that?

T-Bone

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 11:54* »
Great news for all involved. We have decent cover for most of those positions. Obviously it will affect our training this week, but realistically very few of those guys will be missing for the autumn internationals, and it's a good experience for them, a reward for their play last season and a good reflection on the strength of the current squad
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poorfour

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 11:57* »
Cool, thanks for that. Not sure what that has to do with Ford and Smith not playing the same style but there you go.

The point is, Ford doesn't do that - he is one of the best in the world at moving a defence around over 2-3 phases to create space to overload it on one side or the other. It's the way that the game has been developing over the last few years, but defences are starting to find ways to counter it. In particular South Africa and England focus on shutting down the 13 channel so that the attackers are forced to take it back inside.

Russell has a similar phase play approach to Ford, but has the reaction speed to bypass a rush on 13.

The flowchart is a bit of fun, but the more serious point behind it is that Smith has the potential to take manipulating defences to another level. At club level he has so many options and can deploy a lot of them on the fly within a phase with a low chance of error. He can do the manipulation that Ford does, but if a defence tries to shut it down, he has the options to do something else rather than just reset and start the phases again.

If he can do that internationally, then Ford's longer range kicking becomes less relevant. One thing I really like about the squad is that with the right picks he could be surrounded by a bunch of players who are on his wavelength.

Imagine putting out:
Marler LCD Sinckler
Itoje Lawes
Curry Dombrandt Underhill
Randall Smith
Tuilagi Marchant
Radwan Steward Watson

(Lynagh and Kenningham on the bench...)
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Portquin

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 12:03* »
Very useful that Quins have a rest wkd after that camp. Will help to not disturb our prep for a league game
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JammyGit

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 12:46* »
The point is, Ford doesn't do that - he is one of the best in the world at moving a defence around over 2-3 phases to create space to overload it on one side or the other. It's the way that the game has been developing over the last few years, but defences are starting to find ways to counter it. In particular South Africa and England focus on shutting down the 13 channel so that the attackers are forced to take it back inside.

Russell has a similar phase play approach to Ford, but has the reaction speed to bypass a rush on 13.

The flowchart is a bit of fun, but the more serious point behind it is that Smith has the potential to take manipulating defences to another level. At club level he has so many options and can deploy a lot of them on the fly within a phase with a low chance of error. He can do the manipulation that Ford does, but if a defence tries to shut it down, he has the options to do something else rather than just reset and start the phases again.

If he can do that internationally, then Ford's longer range kicking becomes less relevant. One thing I really like about the squad is that with the right picks he could be surrounded by a bunch of players who are on his wavelength.

Imagine putting out:
Marler LCD Sinckler
Itoje Lawes
Curry Dombrandt Underhill
Randall Smith
Tuilagi Marchant
Radwan Steward Watson

(Lynagh and Kenningham on the bench...)

"Smith is better than Ford" isn't the argument here. Ford and Smith do not play the same way. Rugby is all about manipulating defences and gaining territory, so the differences in how they go about this are indeed the differences in their style. It's been a long time since Ford threatened teams in the same way that Smith currently does, and he doesn't gamble anywhere near as often as Smith does. Conversely, his tactical kicking game is something Smith can learn from.

Both players create space and ease the pressure on their respective teams, but the way they do it is pretty obviously different.
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Yareet

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 12:52* »
Congratulations to the Quins 7! All well deserved. It's especially good to see Lynagh get the call. Hopefully he'll get a cap & be tied to England. From reading the papers, it appears there's only one on-field training session involved in this call up, so less chance of being injured than in previous EJ training camps thankfully.

Elsewhere, you have to shake your head at Youngs and Farrell still being called up. Plus, I know when fit Tuilagi is a force at 12, but he is an injury magnet. We need to find the replacement to him as you can't guarantee he'll be fit for more than two or three games on the trot nowadays.

Reports are that Manu has lost a stone over summer to help reduce injuries

MadMax

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 12:56* »
How is Farrell in over Ford??

Eddie Jones. Next question?

Yareet

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 13:44* »
Oh, but imagine Marcus having a fit Manu to feed, with Marchant playing off his shoulder and Kenningham hitting the breakdown for Randall Quirke to pop to Dombrandt for the offload to Lynagh... or if the defence is marking Manu, hit Sinckler on a reverse line with the second Kenningham Curry there for the offload.

 ;D

West Stand Quin

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 14:59* »
Devils advocate on Lynagh is  he(at the moment) good enough to be in the England squad.
1) if he wasn’t Aussie / Italian qualified would he be there
2) if he justifies England squad it’s a long way to a cap. Watson & May are massively experienced (plus very good). Radwan is clearly a supreme talent. Didn’t see if Nowell was in / fit & Daly will be back when fit again.
3) Callum Sheedy, Gary Graham, Cam Redpath all England squad but now playing for other countries.
4) is cadan Murley massively unlucky as actually he’s shown as much promise as Lynagh

Massive caveat - playing devils advocate and promoting debate as Lynagh is clearly a very good player
« Last Edit: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 15:01* by West Stand Quin »
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Bolly-Quin

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 15:25* »
WSQ: perhaps E. Jones has put him in to tempt him to the dark side - give him one cap against Tonga and tie him in...

I'm surprised that O. Hassell-Colins hasn't got there first - he has wheels and bulk.


Monte

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 15:32* »
On the same grounds that we are pleased about Allen being similar style replacement for Smith wouldn’t it be better to have Ford as back up for Smith than Farrell?
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MadMax

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 16:18* »
On the same grounds that we are pleased about Allen being similar style replacement for Smith wouldn’t it be better to have Ford as back up for Smith than Farrell?

I'd rather have Marler as back up to Smith than Farrell!
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JammyGit

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 16:27* »
WSQ: perhaps E. Jones has put him in to tempt him to the dark side - give him one cap against Tonga and tie him in...

I'm surprised that O. Hassell-Colins hasn't got there first - he has wheels and bulk.

Good hands, too. Quality all-round player.

poorfour

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 16:41* »
On the same grounds that we are pleased about Allen being similar style replacement for Smith wouldn’t it be better to have Ford as back up for Smith than Farrell?

Eddie has his thing about not wanting too many FHs and SHs in the squad so they all get game time in training. He may also have given Ford some work-ons around learning a different England game plan. Farrell won't play the same game as Smith, but Ford may be able to adapt his game.

euroquin

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Re: 7 Quins Named in England Training Squad
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 21-Sep-2021, 20:09* »
What about Sam Riley being in the squad, guys? How about that?

An even more meteoric rise than Lynagh or Kenningham! Has shown flashes of a bright future but only just made his premiership debut. Hope it's not another EJ moment where he invites in young talent only to drop them afterwards.

 

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