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Author Topic: Arlecchino  (Read 1242 times)

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Perdita

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Arlecchino
« on: Saturday 01-Aug-2020, 14:44* »
Given that the character of Harlequin originated from improvised theatre of 16th-century Italy, surely Harlequins should be looking to drop all association and rebrand as Twickenham RFC?  Harlequin was an unfortunate and often beaten servant whose clothes were covered in patches, his face was covered to hide his shame with a black half-mask and I now feel very nervous at mocking this poor figure and wonder whether now is the right time for change.

If brave Exeter can move on, surely Quins can?

By the way, this isn't a serious suggestion and I'm one fan that will welcome the Chiefs with open arms, feathers and all.

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raedarius

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 01-Aug-2020, 15:23* »
I had no idea Richard Littlejohn was on our forum.
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Mayor West

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 01-Aug-2020, 22:50* »
Canít be Twickenham RFC, they already exist.

never sleep

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 08:04* »
I think Harlequins are okay in this debate. Is not like we fans wear feathered headdresses or fezes.

poorfour

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 08:34* »
Being serious for a moment, I think the important distinction here is that Arlecchino was a fictional character whom very few people remember these days, whereas Native Americans were and are real people.

Personally, I like the headdresses and the Tomahawk chop - but I can also recognise that there are other human beings out there for whom itís quite offensive that a club in a sport played mostly by rich white men has adopted as its name and symbol a caricature of a culture to which it has no real connection.

While in theory we have laws and a culture that should promote equality, in practice thereís plenty of evidence that ethnic and other minorities are still exposed to behaviours that undermine them at every turn. Exeter changing their name can seem like a fuss about nothing if youíre not on the receiving end, but from the other end of the telescope itís a meaningful step in the right direction.
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 10:09* »
Given that the character of Harlequin originated from improvised theatre of 16th-century Italy, surely Harlequins should be looking to drop all association and rebrand as Twickenham RFC?  Harlequin was an unfortunate and often beaten servant whose clothes were covered in patches, his face was covered to hide his shame with a black half-mask and I now feel very nervous at mocking this poor figure and wonder whether now is the right time for change.

If brave Exeter can move on, surely Quins can?

By the way, this isn't a serious suggestion and I'm one fan that will welcome the Chiefs with open arms, feathers and all.


..."brave" Exeter...saw what you did there...


To me, that is the point. In no way , shape or form do I feel like anyone is poking fun at or deriding native americans here. It is rather a celebration of their braveness and their culture as far as I am concerned.
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Quinky

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 10:25* »
Exeter changing their name can seem like a fuss about nothing if youíre not on the receiving end, but from the other end of the telescope itís a meaningful step in the right direction.

This is what I find odd. What are the native Americans "on the receiving end" of?

If one listens to the "humour" of Jo Brand, one finds that she often mocks and derides men.

If you listen to what is claimed to be the "humour" of Nish Kumar, he openly insults and mocks the usual victims - Brexit voters, Tories etc.

Why is one deemed to be hyper offensive when there is no mocking or insults, yet the true vitriol is acceptable?

Quintron

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 10:50* »
Is the OP meant to be satire?
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raedarius

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #8 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 10:51* »

..."brave" Exeter...saw what you did there...


To me, that is the point. In no way , shape or form do I feel like anyone is poking fun at or deriding native americans here. It is rather a celebration of their braveness and their culture as far as I am concerned.

It's not really a celebration of their culture, it's nothing more than a tough looking guy in a head-dress and some face paint.  Who does he represent?  What does he really tell you about Native American culture?

Perhaps if we were using the Harlequin character to represent the inherent nature, culture and appearance of all Europeans then the original post would make a little more sense, but only if one of our bars had the Albanian flag as its logo, and the bar staff wore kilts...

Quinky

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 11:54* »
It's not really a celebration of their culture, it's nothing more than a tough looking guy in a head-dress and some face paint.  Who does he represent?  What does he really tell you about Native American culture?


Why does it need to tell anyone anything about Native American culture? People have Pacific Island tribal tattoos, that tell you nothing about Samoan culture or Tongan history. The Chiefs emblem is simply a picture, and it shows no disrespect. For the fams, and most rugby fans, it represents Exeter Chiefs.

Next time you buy a pizza, will you make sure there's a history of Italy included. Or if you buy a Peugeot, sign up for a course on French culture?
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 12:29* »
raedarius its symbology. Read into it what you will. I choose to be positive.

raedarius

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 12:33* »
Why does it need to tell anyone anything about Native American culture?

Deadly described it as a celebration of that culture and I was responding to that point.
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raedarius

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 12:41* »
raedarius its symbology. Read into it what you will. I choose to be positive.

Fair enough.

The food stalls and bars at Sandy Park are called (among others):

BUFFALO
BISON
TOMAHAWK
APACHE
MOHAWK
CHEYENNE
POW WOW
WIGWAM
APACHE
CHUCK WAGON
COWBOY CANTEEN
MOHAWK
TOMAHAWK CANTEEN

(capitals due to copy/paste)

In terms of symbology, it's a celebration of cowboy films rather than Native Americans (but I acknowledge that other interpretations are available).

MadMax

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 12:46* »
I think Harlequins are okay in this debate. Is not like we fans wear feathered headdresses or fezes.

Mind you those diamond geezer trousers weren't clever were they?

Banstead Quin

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Re: Arlecchino
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 02-Aug-2020, 13:10* »
Love the OP on this, very clever and I in no way feel that Exeter are mocking Native Americans. But there are also some who do, mainly white people who have no marches to go on!

I believe from my school education (and not having access to the right documents and not wishing to rely on Google/Wikipedia) the word 'Chief' was first used by the Celtic tribes of Northern Europe in Roman times and was associated with a tribe. When Europeans started settling North America they just transplanted the word to describe the head of the North American native tribes. The Pumunky certainly didn't introduce themselves as a 'tribe' or their Head of as Chief. Those terms just got adopted as an English way of referring to the Native Americans.

Waikato Chiefs use the emblem of an Easter Island looking bloke holding a wooden beating stick. Are Maoris horrified at this? No because it shows  a symbol of power relative to their region. Had Exeter used the emblem of a Celtic warlord, no one would care and it would be more relative to their location, so the use of a Native American is strange but certainly not as a figure of derision.

Now, if Native Americans aren't happy and start marching on Washington and rioting in the streets of America (for which they would probably all be shot) as they are so outraged at what this city in England is doing, then it might be time for a debate but I think that is very unlikely.
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