+- +-

+-Newcomers Start Here

+-Harlequins/Rugby Links


+-Articles


Author Topic: Champions Cup Final  (Read 2178 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

RocQuin

  • Premier Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 252
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 18-Oct-2020, 15:24* »
I didn't see those banners to which you refer, but do you think that just for once you could stop droning on, and on, and on about blasted Saracens?!
No, because they have still got those trophies and titles with their tarnished name against them. Obviously the trophies cannot be awarded retrospectively, but something like when Lance Armstrong was stripped of titles gained by cheating would be better in the history books, rather than allow cheats to go down in history as the best club ever etc etc.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Banstead Quin

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1414
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 18-Oct-2020, 16:21* »
That's the spirit Baggie, they were just there and did nothing so let's not recognise what they now have in their trophy cabinet. And next week they'll go past Care with a prem/champions cup double.

I wasn't saying that the club got rid of them just pointing out that some on here underrate players who go on and win things elsewhere.

Anyway, well done to them and the Chiefs.

Yareet

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 18-Oct-2020, 20:38* »
No, because they have still got those trophies and titles with their tarnished name against them. Obviously the trophies cannot be awarded retrospectively, but something like when Lance Armstrong was stripped of titles gained by cheating would be better in the history books, rather than allow cheats to go down in history as the best club ever etc etc.

So which EPCR rule did they break?

Bolly-Quin

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 2196
  • Location: Reigate
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #18 on: Sunday 18-Oct-2020, 20:59* »
Ring-fencing doesn't have to be in perpetuity, but the Premiership is putting actual proper teams with proper crowds and proper grounds in financial difficulties, let alone the minnows in the lower tiers.

Out of interest, how would you see the Premiership/clubs/players overcome this scenario? 

T-Bone

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 3106
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #19 on: Sunday 18-Oct-2020, 21:11* »
I can't say I really remember people on here saying that Maunder wasn't good enough, but then I don't really remember him being talked of as a possibility.

SHC did pretty well in the few games he played for us. A few decent performances, and I think a couple of average / poor ones. I'd happily have kept him on but I don't think it was ever on the cards. I'm pleased to see he seems settled and is doing well for them. We've done pretty well with Steele I reckon - just Llandajo who's a bit disappointing.

Anyway, good to see two English teams doing well in Europe. Bristol I'd say are less of feel good story. They've largely just thrown money at it. I know they've found some gems along the way, but they've also to a certain extent bought in a team. Their social media guy annoys me too, as does the fawning over them by the likes of Flatman & Co. Having said that, they play some really attractive rugby - I'd love to see us put in performances like that on a regular basis.

It'll be interesting to see what that performance does for Russell's Lions chances. I'm sure he'll go, and I think Sexton should and will miss out. Russell, Farrell and Biggar seems likely. With players like Russell and Cipriani, when it comes off it looks great and it seems they can single-handedly win a game. On the other hand, when it goes wrong, they can more or less lose a game on their own too. That's why I like players like Ford, Smith and Simmonds - they have the ability to create something special but don't tend to regularly go for the really high risk plays. They're a happy medium between the likes of Russell/Cirpiani and Farrell/Biggar.

Banstead Quin

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1414
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #20 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 09:50* »
It's funny T-bone, I was thinking that when Russell's plays didn't come off, he's not a Lions 10 for me. But we've said that about players before and the coaches still goes with them.

A more maverick 10, however, might be better against the Boks as they showed in the RWC final that a structured game plan can be easily nullified.

That said, you can't throw intercepts at that level. Looking forward to the Lions debates in the new year.

Neil Quinnock

  • Academy Player
  • Posts: 310
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #21 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 11:08* »
I can't say I really remember people on here saying that Maunder wasn't good enough, but then I don't really remember him being talked of as a possibility.

SHC did pretty well in the few games he played for us. A few decent performances, and I think a couple of average / poor ones. I'd happily have kept him on but I don't think it was ever on the cards. I'm pleased to see he seems settled and is doing well for them. We've done pretty well with Steele I reckon - just Llandajo who's a bit disappointing.

Anyway, good to see two English teams doing well in Europe. Bristol I'd say are less of feel good story. They've largely just thrown money at it. I know they've found some gems along the way, but they've also to a certain extent bought in a team. Their social media guy annoys me too, as does the fawning over them by the likes of Flatman & Co. Having said that, they play some really attractive rugby - I'd love to see us put in performances like that on a regular basis.

It'll be interesting to see what that performance does for Russell's Lions chances. I'm sure he'll go, and I think Sexton should and will miss out. Russell, Farrell and Biggar seems likely. With players like Russell and Cipriani, when it comes off it looks great and it seems they can single-handedly win a game. On the other hand, when it goes wrong, they can more or less lose a game on their own too. That's why I like players like Ford, Smith and Simmonds - they have the ability to create something special but don't tend to regularly go for the really high risk plays. They're a happy medium between the likes of Russell/Cirpiani and Farrell/Biggar.
Pretty much agree with all of this. I think Joe Simmonds should be a serious contender to start at fly half for England this Autumn after his performances in the last few weeks. A 10-12-13 of Simmonds/Farrell/Slade would be exciting. Sam Simmonds must also be in the mix for a back-row start, but where you fit him in I'm not sure. A Willis/Underhill/Simmonds back row would be pretty destructive with Dombrandt on the bench ? I'm not convinced Vunipola or Curry (either) make the starting team on current form.

Yareet

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #22 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 13:11* »
Pretty much agree with all of this. I think Joe Simmonds should be a serious contender to start at fly half for England this Autumn after his performances in the last few weeks. A 10-12-13 of Simmonds/Farrell/Slade would be exciting. Sam Simmonds must also be in the mix for a back-row start, but where you fit him in I'm not sure. A Willis/Underhill/Simmonds back row would be pretty destructive with Dombrandt on the bench ? I'm not convinced Vunipola or Curry (either) make the starting team on current form.

Curry would start on form for me. But not that Curry.

Unfortunately Ben's injured

raedarius

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1565
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #23 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 13:27* »
Instead of which one?

JammyGit

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 4277
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #24 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 14:14* »
So which EPCR rule did they break?

Qualification rules.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

JammyGit

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 4277
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #25 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 14:15* »
Out of interest, how would you see the Premiership/clubs/players overcome this scenario? 

Now? I'm really not sure. Ringfencing makes sense. An upper cap on wages per player to go with the salary cap. But COVID could genuinely turn the whole thing inside out; these are not healthy businesses.

Yareet

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1877
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #26 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 15:11* »
Qualification rules.

Not really given that qualification is based on league positions.

It’s not EPCR’s place to overrule leagues’ disciplinary decisions.

Bolly-Quin

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 2196
  • Location: Reigate
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #27 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 15:43* »
Now? I'm really not sure. Ringfencing makes sense. An upper cap on wages per player to go with the salary cap. But COVID could genuinely turn the whole thing inside out; these are not healthy businesses.

As a comparison, this is a bit cats and dogs, but in terms of average match attendances, the Premiership rugby has a similar number to an amalgam of Championship and League 1 football ~ 18,500-5,000 (rounding up). Of course, football leagues are larger and play many more games in the upper/mid level leagues, to which we compare on attendances.

* The average (Football) Championship wage is a staggering £29,000/week or £1.5m/year (highest is £68,000/week or £35m/year.
* The average wage for a League 1 player equates to about £4,750/week or ~ £250,000/year - without bonuses,
* For League 2, the average wages are £2,200/week or £115,000/year.

(888.sport.com and https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/leaked-report-reveals-how-much-18169396)

What is average wage for Premiership rugby player? Would that increase if the league were fully/partially ring fenced?

Prior to COVID (game changer all round), how many Football clubs were/are still in a precarious position?

How do football clubs stay solvent and rugby clubs constantly miss profits (except Exeter and, occasionally, Saints)?

Simple comparison, I know, but rugby still has plenty to learn, it seems.


Domestos

  • Baa Baas Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #28 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 16:35* »

What is average wage for Premiership rugby player? Would that increase if the league were fully/partially ring fenced?



On the assumption that is not a rhetorical question.

Harlequins list 43 players in the senior squad, according to the website. i don't think Academy players are counted - are they?

43 players less 3 marquee players equals 40. Divide that into seven million pounds, is it? Equals £175,000, but there must be a wide variance between the top earners and the low end.

Not bad earnings, but not exactly untold wealth.

If my calculations are up the creek, someone will tell me, I am sure. 

Mayor West

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1623
Re: Champions Cup Final
« Reply #29 on: Monday 19-Oct-2020, 17:01* »
I don’t think you can compare football with rugby as the squad sizes are different. I’m not fully sure of football squads but I would think that 30/35 would be the number on the payroll. Rugby squads will be ten or so higher so less money has to go round more People. Rugby’s problem is that not enough people are watching or paying to watch it to cover the costs. The economics are that costs need cutting. The fact that wages are higher than most clubs can sustain without wealthy owners putting extra money in shows how fine the balance is. I believe that in the EFL you have to run your clubs finances without losses being incurred. It’s apples and pears.

 

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 

Login with your social network

Forgot your password?

+-Site Statistics

Members
Total Members: 1162
Latest: Marsi1e
New This Month: 2
New This Week: 1
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 119483
Total Topics: 6383
Most Online Today: 394
Most Online Ever: 4089
(Sunday 10-Oct-2021, 12:56*)
Users Online
Members: 20
Guests: 368
Total: 388