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Author Topic: *Danny Axed from World Cup*  (Read 3130 times)

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Quinston Churchill

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 09:51* »
Can't be bothered to deal with the Telegraph paywall. Does it name a source?

Care isn't a starter,with the style Eddie wants to play, but he's the best finishing scrum half England have. The number of tries he's created in the last quarter have been very instrumental in a lot of victories - remember his personal demolition of Australia? - and I am willing to bet that he might have made the difference against Wales in the 6N.

I just don't get why Eddie would refuse even to look at players who've been part of his setup for three quarters of his tenure, are the most experienced options in their positions, and haven't noticeably dropped in form. I could understand them not making the final 31, but I'd be perplexed if they weren't in the initial training squad.

Yep. 100% agree.

Care, Robshaw and Brown have been in great form, so it’s hardly as though we’re arguing that they’re suggested off the back of ‘credit in the bank’/past performances.

Selection is always very subjective (particularly under Eddie), but to ignore a group of players who have almost always delivered for England for the training squad at this late stage is just completely illogical. Particularly when the players likely to replace them are not obviously superior or in better form.

England’s loss is our gain, but it feels grossly unfair for their England careers to end in a fairly humiliating way.
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Domestos

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 10:02* »
Can't be bothered to deal with the Telegraph paywall. Does it name a source?


Quote

Telegraph Sport understands that Care has been directly informed that he will not be going to Japan, while former captain Chris Robshaw’s hopes also appear to be in the balance. Neither has featured under Jones this year having been mainstays for the first three years of the Australian’s reign.


poorfour

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 12:50* »
Thanks. If so, that is really quite bizarre, especially if the rumours of taking a makeshift regards reserve scrum half are true. On the other hand "understands that X has been informed" is "someone told us that someone told someone else something", so I would take it with a pinch of salt.

Gone

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 14:09* »
Thanks. If so, that is really quite bizarre, especially if the rumours of taking a makeshift regards reserve scrum half are true. On the other hand "understands that X has been informed" is "someone told us that someone told someone else something", so I would take it with a pinch of salt.

What that normally means is the person in question has told everyone.

Bolly-Quin

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 15:01* »

JammyGit

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 15-Jun-2019, 16:51* »
Deliberate, I can assure you.

HarTley Quin

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #21 on: Sunday 16-Jun-2019, 16:12* »
I guess it depends on how Eddie wants to play. And the fact that we don't know that in itself says something.  If he  wants to base his attack on the Sarries "kick and compete" model then I suppose there's an argument for taking Spencer and Wrigglesworth.

Given that Itoje and Lawes can both play 6 I think he'll only take 5 back row forwards. Wilson, Curry and Vunipola feel like 100% and I think he'll take Underhill.  That leaves one place beteween Robshaw, Shields, Hughes, Simmonds.  I think he's more likely to take a second 8 given the comment about Itoje and Lawes.  I fear he will take Hughes who in my humble opinion is a poor man's Vunipola.  Personally I would take Robshaw and have Wilson as my backup 8 but I am not convinced this will happen.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #22 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 11:09* »
You'd think Kvesic is in the mix for the back row too. It is one of the most competitive areas, whichever way you look at the options...

T-Bone

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #23 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 12:03* »
This is still annoying me when it really shouldn't.

If Jones took Youngs and then 1 or 2 of Wigglesworth and Spencer I wouldn't agree but could understand it. It's the possibility of Heinz going which I just find silly.

Heinz is not, to me at least, a player so good they're worth bringing in with no previous experience (unless you count one training squad). He's not like Archer at the cricket world cup, or like someone like Beauden Barrett qualifying via residency a few months before the tournament. He's a player who's been available for a while I believe but who presuably hasn't been deemed worth giving a proper opportunity before.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #24 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 12:29* »
This is still annoying me when it really shouldn't.

If Jones took Youngs and then 1 or 2 of Wigglesworth and Spencer I wouldn't agree but could understand it. It's the possibility of Heinz going which I just find silly.

Heinz is not, to me at least, a player so good they're worth bringing in with no previous experience (unless you count one training squad). He's not like Archer at the cricket world cup, or like someone like Beauden Barrett qualifying via residency a few months before the tournament. He's a player who's been available for a while I believe but who presuably hasn't been deemed worth giving a proper opportunity before.

I think Eddie Jones as ultimate squad selector gives you all the context you need - does he even know what he's going to do next?

More seriously, you could maybe posit that Heinz is a leader (Glaws captain) and if you assume that rumour is correct that Hartley and Robshaw are apparently set to miss out he could bring that steadying influence at the base of the ruck? I quite like Heinz - he's very solid - but agree that he's unlikely to set the RWC alight.

I do think that 9 is one position Eddie needs to put resource and effort into developing post-RWC. When you compare our options to the likes of SA's (Faf de Klerk, Cobus Reinach to name just the Prem players) and closer to home, Wales' (who have had strong depth at 9 for years now) and now France's with Dupont coming through... we don't really look overly frightening off the base do we? Hoping that the likes of Harry Randall continue to develop and we see a new era of English scrum halves who can do a bit more than just pass and kick.

Chipstead Quin

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #25 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 12:50* »
Eddie Jones is exploring the depth of the number 9's he has available

At the time, England head coach Eddie Jones said: “Heinz has a good feel for the game but you have got to remember we are bringing him in for this camp only. We never know when we might need these players.

"Look at the 2011 World Cup in New Zealand where Stephen Donald was fifth choice for the All Blacks.

“We might get to the final in 2019 and need to find a fifth-choice scrum-half. Now, potentially, I know who the fifth-choice number nine is.”


https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/could-gloucester-rugby-captain-willi-2961224

With Youngs at 1 and Heinz at 5 .. who would fill the other slots ?

England usually take 3 Scrum Halves to the RWC , but Jones only took 2 with Australia is 2003 and the same with Japan in 2015

honkytonk

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #26 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 13:30* »
Maybe he plans to play him with Cipriani

ChequeredJersey

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #27 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 15:17* »
Based on Jones' injury record at previous training camps, I wouldn't assume that anyone is not going until the tournament starts.

If Youngs doesn't recover or gets crocked in the training camp, Care is gonna end up going.
If one of Shields/Wilson gets injured in training, assuming he's not already going, Robshaw is gonna end up going.
Brown should go anyway, if Jones isn't utterly insane, at least as FB back up, but if Daly or Nowell are injured by the time the team leave the UK then Brown will end up going.
If Mako is confirmed out, I wouldn't be surprised if they beg Marler to return.

We will not be seeing EJ's first choice world cup squad in Japan because there will be injuries

ChequeredJersey

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #28 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 17:56* »
No Brown In the backfield worked... Variably. And as soon as you lose Daly, the back 3 looks even more exposed.

poorfour

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Re: *Danny Axed from World Cup*
« Reply #29 on: Monday 17-Jun-2019, 18:50* »
Eh? England are vulnerable with Daly in the backfield to any team with a decent kickchase, and I am not convinced he will improve fast enough to remove that risk.

Plus, if he gets injured then the total number of international caps at fullback that any other players apart from Brown or Goode have can be counted on one hand.

England had a two year spell with one defeat with Brown in the backfield, followed by a year when the backfield worked fine but the breakdown (and altitude conditioning) lost them game after game.

And all this talk of players like Kvesic being in the mix is just insanity. The build up to the RWC is not the time to suddenly decide that you want to try a player you've ignored for four years - except (as appears to be the case with Heinz) if you're taking a look at your emergency options.
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