Author Topic: Draw for Premiership Cup is 6th July (Read 999 times)

deadlyfrom5yardsout · « **on:** Friday 15-Jun-2018, 11:04* »

Who do we fancy?

http://www.talkingrugbyunion.co.uk/premiership-rugby-cup-to-replace-anglo-welsh-competition-next-season/20478.htm

Fearless Fred · « **Reply #1 on:** Tuesday 19-Jun-2018, 14:10* »

I still can't see how this can be anything other than a complete fudge when it comes to qualifying, given they've committed to having 4 rounds & 3 pools of 4 teams, along with one of the rounds being a "derby game" round. If you thought the AW was stupidly organised, this'll take it to a whole new level of absurdity...

Boonie · « **Reply #2 on:** Tuesday 19-Jun-2018, 17:09* »

Bless 'em, they have to have something to do...what else do they actually do? ;)

Admin · « **Reply #3 on:** Wednesday 20-Jun-2018, 13:23* »

So all season we play the other premiership clubs. Then when we want a break from that we have a cup competition where we play - the other premiership clubs.

Is this going to be the A teams playing or something?

Fearless Fred · « **Reply #4 on:** Wednesday 20-Jun-2018, 13:27* »

Quote from: Admin on Wednesday 20-Jun-2018, 13:23*

So all season we play the other premiership clubs. Then when we want a break from that we have a cup competition where we play - the other premiership clubs.

Is this going to be the A teams playing or something?

I think it'll be the usual thing where some teams (those doing well) will use this for the younger squad members/third choice players; Others will use it to bring in players who are coming back from injury; and some will take it very seriously as a chance to get silverware & so use their best available players if they can.

In other words, not really a level playing field at all. We really need to find a better use for those weekends. Clubs need the money of having fixtures, but without a meaningful competition, it's bordering on a waste of resources & fans time...

Rocker · « **Reply #5 on:** Wednesday 20-Jun-2018, 15:37* »

I'd call this proposed new tournament a total waste of time already! It's just daft unless they actually enforce some sort of A team only status to it. It's utterly ridiculous, I know the club's have sold season tickets etc for a given number of games and they need the revenue, but this is just making up some BS to fill the time. I really don't think they've thought this through properly at all 😡

Fearless Fred · « **Reply #6 on:** Wednesday 20-Jun-2018, 16:06* »

Just don't get me started on how ludicrous the qualification system is going to be!

deadlyfrom5yardsout · « **Reply #7 on:** Sunday 24-Jun-2018, 10:46* »

Really glad I mentioned it now :(

Fearless Fred · « **Reply #8 on:** Monday 25-Jun-2018, 09:54* »

Quote from: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Sunday 24-Jun-2018, 10:46*

Really glad I mentioned it now :(

Sorry, Deadly! I just get exasperated when they come up with convoluted qualification systems for a competition. The Anglo-Welsh was bad enough (with the possibility of winning ALL your pool games with a try bonus point & not qualifying, while a team you've played against could lose all of their games without even a losing/try bonus point could end up qualifying). This is going to be even more of a Horlicks. It's almost on a par with what SuperLeague had a few seasons back with their "club call" allowing certain teams to actually pick who they face in the early knock-out stages.

Since we've three pools of four, you can't have the old system where Pool A plays pool B because who would Pool C play? Every team is going to get two home games, so I can see them organising it as you play the three teams in your pool, then the "derby" game will be against a team from another pool. So, say we're in Pool A with Gloucester Exeter & Tigers. We'd all play each other, but our fourth game will be against Sarries, Bath, Bristol, and Saints respectively. It strikes me as frankly silly that teams in the same pool don't play the same opposition in order to qualify. At least the AW we all played the same opposition in the pool stage.

Camquin · « **Reply #9 on:** Monday 25-Jun-2018, 22:25* »

Both Premiership and Championship have ended up with ludicrous cups neither like.
There was an opportunity to create a 24 team competition but it was missed.

Rocker · « **Reply #10 on:** Monday 25-Jun-2018, 23:51* »

Quote from: Camquin on Monday 25-Jun-2018, 22:25*

Both Premiership and Championship have ended up with ludicrous cups neither like.
There was an opportunity to create a 24 team competition but it was missed.

Yes daft not to have a "cup" between the 2 top leauges. It would add some prestige amd wexperience to the 2nd tier whilst still being a good "work out" for the younger/less experienced Premiership players.

never sleep · « **Reply #11 on:** Tuesday 26-Jun-2018, 09:52* »

Also, it would give us lots of Derby matches

Fearless Fred · « **Reply #12 on:** Tuesday 26-Jun-2018, 10:36* »

I'm not sure a tournament with premiership & championship clubs all competing would work. Sure, there's a few clubs at the top of the championship that are competitive, but the gulf between even mid table clubs in the two levels of enough to pose a real risk to player welfare. Remember a lot of the championship clubs are at best semi professional. Unlike football where a gulf in skill generally just results in large scorelines, in rugby there's a real risk of injury to players of a lower level.

never sleep · « **Reply #13 on:** Tuesday 26-Jun-2018, 10:54* »

I think that there is a fair point about player safety - but this is probably easily overcome.
Options:
1. It is a full knockout cup where the championship sides only play each other in the first round. This way, you immediately eliminate the bottom 6 teams.
2. You only include the top 4 championship teams in the competition. This just replaces the Welsh teams. In reality, the top 4 Championship teams would be stronger than the teams the Welsh regions tend to put out for this competition. It also makes team aspire to be top 4 in the Championship.
3. You only include the top 8 championship teams in the competition. This gives 5 pools of 4 teams or 4 pools of 5 teams. It also makes team work to avoid the bottom 4 in the Championship.
4. Make clubs register players for the competition in advance (like the European cups). That way, Premiership clubs would not register international players as they would not be available.
5. Introduce rules to force premiership clubs to put out development teams. (Although I don't like this option as it devalues the competition).

But, generally, the teams that clubs like ourselves and Sarries etc put out out for this competition are not full Premiership team level - so there should be more even games.

T-Bone · « **Reply #14 on:** Tuesday 26-Jun-2018, 17:57* »

Quote from: never sleep on Tuesday 26-Jun-2018, 10:54*

I think that there is a fair point about player safety - but this is probably easily overcome.
Options:
1. It is a full knockout cup where the championship sides only play each other in the first round. This way, you immediately eliminate the bottom 6 teams.
2. You only include the top 4 championship teams in the competition. This just replaces the Welsh teams. In reality, the top 4 Championship teams would be stronger than the teams the Welsh regions tend to put out for this competition. It also makes team aspire to be top 4 in the Championship.
3. You only include the top 8 championship teams in the competition. This gives 5 pools of 4 teams or 4 pools of 5 teams. It also makes team work to avoid the bottom 4 in the Championship.
4. Make clubs register players for the competition in advance (like the European cups). That way, Premiership clubs would not register international players as they would not be available.
5. Introduce rules to force premiership clubs to put out development teams. (Although I don't like this option as it devalues the competition).

But, generally, the teams that clubs like ourselves and Sarries etc put out out for this competition are not full Premiership team level - so there should be more even games.

The argument about player safety is a very valid one if you are taking about a knock out cup including all the teams in the league pyramid but, while I know there's going to be a big disparity in quality with top of the premiership and bottom of the championship, I don't think it would be so great as to be dangerous. I suppose the issue would be, the premiership clubs would normally play some of their dual registered players, which would then mean the champsionship clubs are relying on some of their fringe squad members. I think it could have been made to work though.

The new format just seems silly and will be even of even less relevant than the old anglo-welsh. Seems like an opportunity missed really.

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Author Topic: Draw for Premiership Cup is 6th July (Read 999 times)

deadlyfrom5yardsout

Draw for Premiership Cup is 6th July

Fearless Fred

Re: Draw for Premiership Cup is 6th July

Boonie

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Admin

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Fearless Fred

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Rocker

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Fearless Fred

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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Fearless Fred

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Camquin

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never sleep

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never sleep

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