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Poll

Should Quins go after Elliot Daly

Heck YES!
10 (13.5%)
Yes if we don't break the bank/run out of money for other new Signings
16 (21.6%)
No, we've enough options in the backs already for next season
48 (64.9%)

Total Members Voted: 74

Author Topic: Elliot Daly  (Read 4060 times)

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GP2110

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 00:20 »
The guy is a 13 who can cover wing in an emergency. He's a poor full back.

This is utter nonsense. He is a world class player capable of playing at centre, full back or wing.  The fact that he played on the wing in all three test matches against NZ, when the British Lions drew the series, is testament to how highly he is rated.

By all accounts, he is one of the few players that Jones considers to be truly world class and someone who will always start when fit, albeit that his position may vary depending on the strategy.

He is also one of the best long range goal kickers in world rugby.
« Last Edit: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 01:35 by GP2110 »

Harleys Evil Step Mum

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 09:05 »
Lewington, Strettle, Maitland, Goode, Daly....who have I missed in their back line??

Rigoletto

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 09:08 »
How??? Salary cap......?

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 09:11 »
How??? Salary cap......?

Presumably there will also be players leaving Sarries this summer... So yeah, that'll be how.

Boonie

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 09:40 »
Presumably there will also be players leaving Sarries this summer... So yeah, that'll be how.

(just don't look too closely at the books...)

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 10:01 »
I mean, there's not a tonne of it on this thread (yet) but I always get a bit confused as to why a lot of people seem to think they know what Sarries are paying their players. Until they are found out to be breaching the cap again, can we all really sit here and pass judgement that they definitely must be? Maybe they're just good at negotiating deals - maybe the draw of playing for the most successful English club in recent years means they don't have to tempt players with money quite so much.

Also it's important to remember that a lot of their internationals have come through the club and have developed at Sarries - much like we did with our England contingent. I have no inside knowledge of how contract negotiations work but to me it's always seemed logical that whilst those international players' wages will have increased quite a bit in that time, a player who has come through the club is not going to cost as much as if the club hired an equivalent international from another club. When you bring an international player (or any player for that matter) in from another club, logic would dictate that the player/player's agent holds all the cards for that particular negotiation. I'm sure for contract renewals the player knows they could get more elsewhere (because any club looking to tempt them away would need to improve on their current financial situation) but they're staying for other reasons - loyalty, happiness where they are etc.

I also struggle to see why Sarries (or any of the clubs) would want to breach the salary cap. Why would you do that deliberately?

My feeling is Sarries are just shrewd with their business. They've brought in a lot of non-international Saffas to bolster their ranks - who presumably come on a decent rate. They've developed their England internationals at the club and they've fostered a winning environment that any pro at the top of their game would want to be part of. Maybe they have breached the cap but until the evidence is laid out in front of me I'm not going to accuse them of doing so - just feels a bit like petty jealousy.
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KevT

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 10:15 »
Let's just say there have been previous allegations against clubs rumoured to be breaking the cap that were suddenly the subject of confidentiality agreements in 2015.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11982510/Premiership-rugby-salary-cap-cover-up-is-a-scandal-which-cheats-fans.html

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #37 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 10:28 »
Yeah I remember all that. My point remains: why would they continue to infringe?

returnoftheshrek

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #38 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 10:43 »
Yeah I remember all that. My point remains: why would they continue to infringe?


To remain the most sucessful club in the country.

Your previous post neglects to recognise that there is a standard supply and demand market outside the premiership i.e. France. Who will pay big money for star players. Sarries have to ensure they keep the best players. (even the ones who they have brought their acadamy) so they are competing against the French as well. Its a short career, players will go for salaries rather than the quality of the clubs scatter cushions.

Whilst no one actually knows salaries, anyone who has followed rugby knows that there are benchmarks for levels of players - published yearly by Rugby magazines.

Put these benchmarks against their squad (once it is finalised) and you will see whether they are over this cap.

A group of us did this the year it was all hushed up and Sarries Leicester and Bath all seemed to be over the cap at the time.

It left a bitter taste when the Premiership caved in to Sarries bully boy tactics when they threaten to go to court.  Hence the animosity of most rugby fans to Sarries and their spending

Yareet

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 15:23 »


To remain the most sucessful club in the country.

Your previous post neglects to recognise that there is a standard supply and demand market outside the premiership i.e. France. Who will pay big money for star players. Sarries have to ensure they keep the best players. (even the ones who they have brought their acadamy) so they are competing against the French as well. Its a short career, players will go for salaries rather than the quality of the clubs scatter cushions.


And your post ignores the draw of England. If a player has any aspirations of playing for his country then France is off the table.

You're also implying that the players are equally crooked at least as some of them would have to be involved. I may be naïve but not many pro players come across as being that bent.


The rumours are that Daley has taken a pay cut to move to Sarries and one thing they are very good at is helping with life after rugby (look how many of the players have side gigs set up).


Quinten Poulsen

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 15:44 »
I would imagine a club as successful as Sarries would be able to attract players and pay lower salaries than clubs who rarely win trophies.
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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #41 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 15:55 »
I would imagine a club as successful as Sarries would be able to attract players and pay lower salaries than clubs who rarely win trophies.

Should have made my point more succinctly - this is basically what I was getting at.


Whilst no one actually knows salaries, anyone who has followed rugby knows that there are benchmarks for levels of players - published yearly by Rugby magazines.

Put these benchmarks against their squad (once it is finalised) and you will see whether they are over this cap.

A group of us did this the year it was all hushed up and Sarries Leicester and Bath all seemed to be over the cap at the time.

It left a bitter taste when the Premiership caved in to Sarries bully boy tactics when they threaten to go to court.  Hence the animosity of most rugby fans to Sarries and their spending

I get what you're saying but it's not an exact science is it? Where do the benchmarks come from? Based on what level of inside knowledge and what kind of sample size?

I'm not arguing that what Sarries did before was not unacceptable - I was just as angry to hear about the cover up as the next man. But we're now 4 years on from that point. I'd like to believe, until proven otherwise, that those clubs that were previously guilty are now playing by the rules. If they're not and it's evidently being done to gain an advantage - i.e. not just a balls-up in the accounts department - then there need to be consequences. As I would want there to be for Quins if we ever started playing in the muck. And it looks as though PRL have introduced points penalties this season - a tiered system for anything over £350k: https://twitter.com/kean_thomas/status/1093099862172880897

dr_miles

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #42 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 17:25 »
Lewington, Strettle, Maitland, Goode, Daly....who have I missed in their back line??

I think I heard/read that Strettle is retiring?

Mayor West

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #43 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 20:32 »
Won’t Saracens have room for Daly’s wages as Maro is coming to us.
  Regarding the cap, I would imagine that the tax lawyers that create loopholes for the rich will have continued to create loopholes for the clubs that continue to wish to ignore the salary cap agreement. Hopefully the cap regulator has said “you can’t do that” and the club that has breached will be dealt with by being relegated if this is the second serious offence.

Quinky

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #44 on: Wednesday 06-Feb-2019, 22:23 »

You're also implying that the players are equally crooked at least as some of them would have to be involved. I may be naïve but not many pro players come across as being that bent.


How so? The players would need to know what every other squad member was earning, and be aware of all dispensations and allowances. Even then, the player cannot be seen as complicit.
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