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Poll

Should Quins go after Elliot Daly

Heck YES!
10 (13.5%)
Yes if we don't break the bank/run out of money for other new Signings
16 (21.6%)
No, we've enough options in the backs already for next season
48 (64.9%)

Total Members Voted: 74

Author Topic: Elliot Daly  (Read 4109 times)

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Blucherquin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #60 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 08:16* »
One of the ways in which a club (I don't know which) used to get round the salary cap is that they had a club pool of Range Rovers, these were technically for anyone to use and therefore didn't convey a benefit on any individual - however only certain people had the keys to each of them.

I know a couple of people who have worked on the salary cap audit and they've acknowledged that it's incredibly difficult to value or even identify all the little extras that players receive - for example squad trip to Dubai where there's no training involved - should this be within the salary cap?

I don't get this -- bonuses and perks are not part of salary as far as HMRC is concerned in any other walk of life, so their salary is their salary. It should be very straightforward to measure.

Admittedly this would be their declared salary. But as above, they aren't breaking a law if they mess with the salary cap.

I have no clue - but if I was a "big" player I'd insist on being paid via a ltd company and funnel all my other benefits and activity through there. So I assume something happens along those lines.

Yareet

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #61 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 09:40* »
I don't get this -- bonuses and perks are not part of salary as far as HMRC is concerned in any other walk of life, so their salary is their salary. It should be very straightforward to measure.

Admittedly this would be their declared salary. But as above, they aren't breaking a law if they mess with the salary cap.

I have no clue - but if I was a "big" player I'd insist on being paid via a ltd company and funnel all my other benefits and activity through there. So I assume something happens along those lines.

“Salary cap” is perhaps a misnomer. “Remuneration cap” would be more accurate.

In a not unrelated subject, as a recruiter our fee is a percentage of the guaranteed earnings. In most cases a bonus isn’t counted towards our calculations unless it’s guaranteed - to stop somebody paying £1k salary and £49k “bonus”.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #62 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 09:53* »
Any bonus I have ever had has been taxed.

Brown Bottle

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #63 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 09:53* »
Quote
I don't get this -- bonuses and perks are not part of salary as far as HMRC is concerned in any other walk of life, so their salary is their salary. It should be very straightforward to measure.

Eh? Bonuses are certainly taxable. As are perks such as private health care and company cars.

Quinky

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #64 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 10:50* »
I have no clue - but if I was a "big" player I'd insist on being paid via a ltd company and funnel all my other benefits and activity through there. So I assume something happens along those lines.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, one way in which a club could help a player is through tax planning, and this is definitely a way to do that. However, the amount paid by the club shouldn't be affected - it's just the amount retained by the player.

marlowish

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #65 on: Friday 08-Feb-2019, 16:55* »
Yeah I remember all that. My point remains: why would they continue to infringe?
Because they can because there was no sanction against them last time and therefore no reason to stop cheating
How can anyone look at that squad and think it is within the cap - unless they have players who are really thick and do not know what they are worth

Blucherquin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #66 on: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 17:44* »
Eh? Bonuses are certainly taxable. As are perks such as private health care and company cars.

They aren’t your salary. They are taxed.

It makes a difference to your employer.

Quinky

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #67 on: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 18:19* »
They aren’t your salary. They are taxed.

It makes a difference to your employer.

I think the salary cap covers all remuneration, not just salary.

Brown Bottle

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #68 on: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 19:46* »
They aren’t your salary. They are taxed.

It makes a difference to your employer.

Whatever the difference to your employer I think you'll find HMRC are very interested, which is what you originally disputed.

T-Bone

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #69 on: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 20:20* »
I realise this is now off topic but Daly had VC a good in attack today

GP2110

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #70 on: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 20:47* »
He’s a fantastic player.  The last two games have shown how ridiculous the comments on this England team were just over a week ago.

Manu and Slade look great in midfield. May is the form winger in the world right now. Youngs has been very good. Farrell excellent at fly half. And daly an automatic starter.

The fact we can replace itoje with Lawes and then add Launchbury to the bench is the reason why we will win the grand slam in my opinion. Our squad depth is excellent.
« Last Edit: Sunday 10-Feb-2019, 20:48* by GP2110 »
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Blucherquin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #71 on: Monday 11-Feb-2019, 08:30* »
Whatever the difference to your employer I think you'll find HMRC are very interested, which is what you originally disputed.

I didn't. I said that HMRC doesn't regard things that aren't your salary as your salary. Of course they tax bonuses and other non-salary payments. But if you're running a company, it makes a massive difference to your books and operating cash what counts as your salary bill and what doesn't.

No idea how they work it for rugby, as I said. What is the "salary" measured in the cap because obviously HMRC doesn't care about an internal rugby rule, they just want their cash.

Original point was that if it's anything to do with what is declared as a "wage" bill it doesn't have to include other ways of paying employees money. But you'd hope Prem Rugby wasn't as stupid as to take these things on face value.

Blucherquin

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #72 on: Monday 11-Feb-2019, 08:32* »
On a totally unrelated note, Daly was superb going forward yesterday.

England no longer have a traditional 15 but it's working v well.

Since the number on the shirt doesn't mean a lot the way they're playing now it really doesn't matter.
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thatchapcarnell

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #73 on: Wednesday 13-Feb-2019, 10:47* »
For an excellent and in-depth look at the salary cap and what is and is not included then have a listen to the Eggchasers rugby podcast this week (the domestic mid-week one rather than the 6N one).

Their conclusion is that it is VERY difficult to breach the cap and that there are good reasons why players may be earning less at Saracens than they could elsewhere.

Not saying that's definitely correct but it made me think again about the issue.

Fursty

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Re: Elliot Daly
« Reply #74 on: Wednesday 13-Feb-2019, 11:38* »
For an excellent and in-depth look at the salary cap and what is and is not included then have a listen to the Eggchasers rugby podcast this week (the domestic mid-week one rather than the 6N one).

Their conclusion is that it is VERY difficult to breach the cap and that there are good reasons why players may be earning less at Saracens than they could elsewhere.

Not saying that's definitely correct but it made me think again about the issue.

I've just listened and they completely missed the point - of course it's easy to police the salary cap if everyone declares all their expenses. However if you don't record the expense then there's plenty which could be excluded.

 

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