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Author Topic: England Squad announced  (Read 2920 times)

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never sleep

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 13:40* »
I actually think you're spot on that there probably have been potential English answers to Esterhuizen that have ended up in the back row - but asking an 8 to switch to 12 at international level is, in my mind, more likely to be an unmitigated disaster than a stroke of genius, particularly with defence in mind as I mentioned above.

It does feel like there has been a breakthrough in thinking around the merits of a proper unit at 12 (who doesn't neglect skills training) in recent seasons though and I'm hopeful we'll see some meaty centres with a well-developed all round game coming through Prem academy pipelines in the next few years. I'm excited to see how Lennox Anyanwu develops for us in particular...
Lennox needs to change his running lines. On Saturday, he ran too many cross field lines rather than going straight at Scottish. (although in fairness, he was playing at 13)

Man From LA

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 13:47* »
If you listen to Squidge he says DC manages our games not Marcus. In fact when you have absorbed that and then watch Quins play he is largely right.

I get your point but whoever managed England's games against SA (and Tonga) in the AI's, be it Smith/Slade/Youngs etc, they did it successfully without the need of Farrell's game management (or leadership sic). Jones using those reasons as to why Farrell must play no-matter-what just doesn't stack up when you look at how England played without him.

Bolly-Quin

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 14:21* »
It does feel like there has been a breakthrough in thinking around the merits of a proper unit at 12

I don't wish to challenge your observation, but isn't this the old-fangled "crash ball centre"? Perhaps you could expand a little on what the breakthrough is?

JammyGit

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 16:44* »
I get your point but whoever managed England's games against SA (and Tonga) in the AI's, be it Smith/Slade/Youngs etc, they did it successfully without the need of Farrell's game management (or leadership sic). Jones using those reasons as to why Farrell must play no-matter-what just doesn't stack up when you look at how England played without him.

England genuinely played better without Farrell there. He was just a step behind everyone else and making it very ponderous. This 6N really has to be his last chance saloon; it's not up to Smith to prove he can play with Farrell, it's up to Farrell - who stank out the place last 6N and had a very poor Lions tour, then looked awkward before injury - to prove he deserves to play alongside Smith.
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Archquin

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 20:17* »
No Huw Jones in Scotland squad - should get more of a chance with Quins as Northmore away
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poorfour

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 21:36* »
England genuinely played better without Farrell there. He was just a step behind everyone else and making it very ponderous. This 6N really has to be his last chance saloon; it's not up to Smith to prove he can play with Farrell, it's up to Farrell - who stank out the place last 6N and had a very poor Lions tour, then looked awkward before injury - to prove he deserves to play alongside Smith.

He was definitely off the pace in the last 6N, but it's hard to judge Farrell on the AIs based on 65 minutes. And I'm not going to judge anyone except Gatland for the Lions tour.

Eddie clearly thinks he can improve Smith's performance and given the lack of credible alternatives at 12, it's worth seeing if he can. But if he doesn't perform or stifles the attack, I hope someone else is brought in.

Twickersman

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #36 on: Wednesday 19-Jan-2022, 22:30* »
I think the reference to Sam Burgess is a joke. He had played 0% time in Union and was asked to come over and play flanker for his club and centre for his country.

Centers and Flankers are roughly the same size and if you look at Andre, he is better over the ball than many 7s in the Premiership.

It will be interesting to see how Edide uses all the hybrid players that he keeps mentioning.


JammyGit

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 00:14* »
He was definitely off the pace in the last 6N, but it's hard to judge Farrell on the AIs based on 65 minutes. And I'm not going to judge anyone except Gatland for the Lions tour.

Eddie clearly thinks he can improve Smith's performance and given the lack of credible alternatives at 12, it's worth seeing if he can. But if he doesn't perform or stifles the attack, I hope someone else is brought in.

I can and will judge the 65 minutes he spent on the pitch, where he looked pretty awful - and just how much better England were once he was out of the picture. After all, he's just been shoehorned back into the squad on the back of no rugby.

As for the Lions tour, that was Farrell's kind of rugby, but it also doesn't excuse his failings. Poor kicking, ponderous in attack, missing tackles - he went from one of the favourites to start to being a complete also-ran. His horror show was one of the main reasons the Lions lost to SA 'A'.

How long would you give him? The full 6N? How do we develop credible alternatives if Captain Kicks-it has a lock on the 12 shirt regardless of fitness or form?
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RodneyRegis

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 07:47* »
I sincerely hope Eddie doesn't pick a forward at 12.

Me too,  but it if it's a choice between archie white and Farrell then get your boots on archie.
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Banstead Quin

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #39 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 09:27* »
Being realistic and listening to the RUW pod, he's gonna play the whole 6N as, quote, "Marcus can be an outstanding 10......with Farrell outside him" hence Eddie believes that he will only dominate sides (as he has been doing for Quins for about a year now) with only the handbrake there. So that tells us he gets the whole tournament to prove Eddie right.

If he's poor then he won't tour Australia in the summer and that'll be his time done. Eddie will want a get out of jail free card if it doesn't work so expect the 'I gave him the chance but he didn't take it' defence and that will see Farrell off, into the sunset.

If he does play well however and bring the point of difference, Eddie will expect a lifetime contract and a pay rise. For me Smith, Slade, Marchant (Northmore off the bench)

DOK

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DOK

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #41 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 16:13* »
Ireland are over-reliant on Johnny Sexton - England are going down the same path with Owen Farrell

A222Quin

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #42 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 16:19* »
Ireland are over reliant but don't have as many options. What's even more staggering with England is that there's 2 ready made options in cracking form.

I do think sometimes Faz gets abuse because he's Farrell and comes across as aloof and unlikeable. This was discussed on one of the rugby podcasts recently, I can't remember which one. A leader he may be but you can't ignore that he's nowhere near the player he was a couple of years back at the moment and that he'd be a handbrake on the England team. He got in the way against Australia, he'll get in the way against Scotland if he plays.

poorfour

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #43 on: Thursday 20-Jan-2022, 21:57* »
One factor that hasn't been discussed is that Marcus and Faz really get on. Apparently they spent a lot of the Lions tour just talking rugby together. There are a lot worse start points for a productive relationship on the pitch. I still think that Farrell isn't the man England need for the future, but I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a few more games.
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TeddingtonQuin

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Re: England Squad announced
« Reply #44 on: Friday 21-Jan-2022, 10:34* »
Ireland are over reliant but don't have as many options. What's even more staggering with England is that there's 2 ready made options in cracking form.

I do think sometimes Faz gets abuse because he's Farrell and comes across as aloof and unlikeable. This was discussed on one of the rugby podcasts recently, I can't remember which one. A leader he may be but you can't ignore that he's nowhere near the player he was a couple of years back at the moment and that he'd be a handbrake on the England team. He got in the way against Australia, he'll get in the way against Scotland if he plays.

Yes to this and I think the team that he plays for makes him unpopular too. It certainly does for me!

 

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