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Having worked for Lance for years before his appointment at GRC I can say with 99.9% certainty that he will have made sure that the Gloucester house was in order, saying that also knowing the ex CEO Stephen Vaughan I'm certain it already was. Both are very smart experienced operators who, in my opinion, are highly unlikely to break the rules. Use the rules, but not break them.
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Lambert last year, Marchant this ?
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As I understand it, there are rules for how many players can be on loan, for how long, and how it effects the salary cap. Provided these rules are met to call it a "loophole" is just sensationalism from journalist trying to make more stories off the back of Saracens’ cap breaches.
This is worth a quick look - Nick Butterworth, Twitter, on loan players
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That’s pretty clear then, it’s a standard rule.
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As I understand it, there are rules for how many players can be on loan, for how long, and how it effects the salary cap. Provided these rules are met to call it a "loophole" is just sensationalism from journalist trying to make more stories off the back of Saracens’ cap breaches.
This is worth a quick look - Nick Butterworth, Twitter, on loan players
Good thread this. Dreadful article -
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Don’t think Marchant - as contracts don’t start straight away but from 1st July.... Loan deal think had to be UK based?
Bothma this year?
From what Gussy said Lambert had a deal which limited games so think could be the case. -
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It’s all within the rules you can have 3 players on loan and nearly always to championship sides
I think it’s a non story and people are just trying to find anything now after the Sarries debacle -
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I read somewhere else that Bath had loaned players out to play a couple of minutes and then they had come back to cover injuries and been able to play all season. In which case that's a crazy arrangement and is indeed a loophole. Sharples and tinder are hardly fringe players.
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Sharples and tinder are hardly fringe players.
"if they play four games or less for the club in the Heineken Champions Cup and Premiership this season"
This would suggest that they are fringe players nowadays.
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I didn't actually know about this rule, but it seems fairly clear. I initially thought it was similar to dual registration but appears to be a different matter. Dual registration is presumably only for academy players, who have a cap on their salaries anyway, so the dual registration is irrelevant to the cap?
I wonder if we have any senior players out on loan, such as Earle who we knew at the start of the season would be out long term. I can't think who else at the start of the season was due to be out for the majority of the season. Maybe Bothma is on loan too? -
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I wonder if we have any senior players out on loan, such as Earle who we knew at the start of the season would be out long term.
I would have thought Earle would be covered as an injury dispensation.
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I would have thought Earle would be covered as an injury dispensation.
If I have understood correctly, when a player is injured, you still pay their salary (unless the contract says you don't, which seems unlikely, unless you've signed someone on pay as you play due to previous track record) and their salary counts towards the cap. If they are then injured, you can bring someone in of a similar standard and while you still have to pay them (obviously), their salary does not count towards the cap, subject to a maximum of £400,000 to cover all injury replacements.
So if we got someone in to cover Earle, we'd still be paying him and it would count to the cap, and then paying any replacement (I don't think there is one) but the replacement's salary wouldn't count towards the cap.
If we register Earle as a player on loan then we still pay him but his salary doesn't count towards the cap so long as he plays fewer then 4 games for us in the season (and each game he plays his salary counts on a pro rated basis). That's my understanding anyway. What I'm not sure about is whether you can register a player on loan so their salary doesn't count towards the cap, and then still get injury cover for them. I would guess not, as then you get two players and neither salary counts.
So, again assuming my understanding is correct, if you know that a player will be injured for most the season (or can't play for some other reason, including to comply with the cap, like Lambert maybe) you can register them as on loan and their salary doesn't count, or if they get injured during the season then you get a replacement in and their salary doesn't count.
In the case of someone like Lambert I suppose it is a slight loophole in that, if he is out on loan, his salary doesn't count towards the cap as long as he doesn't play enough games (and from memory did he just play in A league, cup and then fewer than 4 proper games?) but he can still train, so he's helping make up numbers in training, passing on experience to younger players, etc -
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That raises an interesting point - if a club signs a player but they don't play, are they still counted under the cap? If not, a club could theoretically sign (for example) Itoje, he doesn't play the rest of the season, Sarries have reduced their bill, and Itoje still trains with the club etc.
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Agree x 2
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