Lets hope he does not rust

Not sure we have many whose place is unchallenged and not an international. Is Horwill’s season being tainted with the lack of coaching nouse and fitness that plagued the whole team?

I’d want to see Bothma string a couple of months rugby together before making him captain. He certainly has potential, but can’t see what he’s proved that makes him captaincy material. I’d stick with Horwill this season.

I agree Cookie , whilst Horwill didn't appear particularly effective last year , he was plagued by personal injury and a team lacking confidence in the second half of the season . He was deemed by experienced management to be good enough to skipper the Wallabies before Quins , so I'm sure he must have  all the right qualities.

 Bothma ( again as an International Capt) will be a future leader , but I would like to see him get a successful season under his belt and concentrate on his own game .

If Gustard is naming 2 , then I wouldn't surprised to see Danny Care in the mix especially if it becomes more apparent that his England career has stalled.

All the talk is about leaders but we need someone with a proper rugby brain too.  Robshaw had it - excluding his one moment in the World Cup.  Horwill has it.  Danny and Joe - NOT.  Dave Ward is a popular choice but not necessarily a first starter with the new crop coming through and can get too hot headed.  Wallace?  Maybe. Young Chisholm?  Not enough experience and again not necessarily first choice on the team sheet.  Clifford if he was fit!  remember him being talked about as a future England Captain and seems to have a rugby head on his shoulders.

Quote from: Blucherquin on Thursday 16-Aug-2018, 09:15*

Quote from: DOK on Thursday 16-Aug-2018, 08:43*

It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.

Also (again I do love MB but)....he doesn't have the temperament to talk to sir. We'd end up getting marched back when the red mist descends.

Mike Brown's red mist is a myth. Look at his disciplinary record - I'd be willing to bet that there have been more yellow cards issued for fouls *on* Mike Brown than for fouls *by* Mike Brown. He's shouty and passionate and doesn't tolerate poor performance - but he also has an incredibly well-developed sense of where the line is and how not to cross it. I think that's one of the reasons opposing teams hate him so much: it looks like he's going to fall foul of the ref, but he almost never does because he stops exactly where the boundary falls.

I would have no concerns about him talking to the ref. I'd be more worried that fullback is just not the best position to be influencing the ref, and you run the risk of being out of position.

But he did it for Quins and England last season (annoying the ref).