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Author Topic: Harlequins' commercial director on new stadium plans  (Read 1753 times)

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TheBlindside

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is the stadium expansion about getting more bums on seats for rugby, or is it aimed at the other entertainment focus the club has developed over the years

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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I guess this is a business that owns a rugby club now rather than the reverse.

Admin

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Well, in the days of Mark Evans he would ask "What business are we in? We are in the entertainment business!". So we haven't been in the sports business for a long time.

Fearless Fred

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(Attachment Link)

I took a screen shot from Google maps of the area involved and I don't think we can "spin" the pitch or anything.



I did a graphic on the old CAW where I showed that the current ground, rotated by 90 degrees (roughly) would easily fit into the current footprint of the depot, with room to spare. I'll try to re-do it again when I get home (I don't have the full graphics package on the laptop here. Given that (plus if we commit some of our current footprint to community use, we could fit an enlarged Stoop there without having to impact on the flats or the road.

The Absolute Quintet

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And we can carry on playing rugby whilst they build it.

Growth, expansion...all good stuff in principle but the Devil's in the detail and I'm concerned about atmosphere on a Friday night in February v Worcester, when a 25,000 stadium will be like a mausoleum, and trying to get in and out of the place on a sunny Saturday afternoon v Leicester. Seems to me we've only just reached a perfect balance of stadium size and atmosphere. Maybe the market's there for it but getting another 10k in will depend on lots of forecasts being right, including the team doing the business.

Fearless Fred

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Over the last few seasons we've consistently reached over 90% capacity across all out games at the Stoop, even when you include Anglo-Welsh games and the occasional Thursday evening game in the Challenge Cup the season before last. DE has been consistent in saying that we once we got to a certain level of capacity regularly, then we'd been looking at the next stage on the growth of The Stoop. We'd all been assuming that meant replacing & enlarging the North Stand. While that's certainly feasible, we would (hopeful;;y!) be reaching the point where we need to expand again 5 years down the line & would need to do a MAJOR rebuild of wither of the two main stands (which would have serious impact on the revenue for a season. So, I guess they've decided that it's time to think big & rather than go at this a piece at a time, let's go the whole hog & Push for a new stadium where they can expand not only facilities for game days, but also for other revenue streams like concerts, corporate functions, etc.

Monte

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We have always been assured NO plastic and the ultimate aim is to follow Big Stoop which is seen as most successful

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Ummm. Where are the houses/Flats/Apartments/Shops going to be built?

Fearless Fred

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Ummm. Where are the houses/Flats/Apartments/Shops going to be built?
Shuffle the Stoop south onto the Depot land & rotate it. Enough space there to build the new stadium (Potentially with a direct walk way through to the Station). Take the " Old" Stoop area. South end of that build a small hotel that shares infrastructure with the New Stoop. Needn't be massive. That still leaves at least half the current land area free to build more houses (more likely more flats similar to the ones already there that can share facilities like an expanded underground parking area, etc).

The Absolute Quintet

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Over the last few seasons we've consistently reached over 90% capacity across all out games at the Stoop, even when you include Anglo-Welsh games and the occasional Thursday evening game in the Challenge Cup the season before last. DE has been consistent in saying that we once we got to a certain level of capacity regularly, then we'd been looking at the next stage on the growth of The Stoop. We'd all been assuming that meant replacing & enlarging the North Stand. While that's certainly feasible, we would (hopeful;;y!) be reaching the point where we need to expand again 5 years down the line & would need to do a MAJOR rebuild of wither of the two main stands (which would have serious impact on the revenue for a season. So, I guess they've decided that it's time to think big & rather than go at this a piece at a time, let's go the whole hog & Push for a new stadium where they can expand not only facilities for game days, but also for other revenue streams like concerts, corporate functions, etc.
Total sense FF, it's just that the incremental growth process has worked well, very well indeed for attendances/atmosphere/match day enjoyment, and this is a huge change to that. Suddenly it's huge costs, huge risks and a huge change to culture. But I guess if I'm watching us in a comfortable, full 25,000 seater kicking ass every other week I won't be complaining. To get the team to that level we may well need that seismic shift, across all fronts. 

Fearless Fred

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I think, TAQ, the phased growth was absolutely the right plan when we had smaller stands and easy space to expand into. Right now, we're at the point where we have one incremental build left that we can easily do (North Stand). We do that and it would add maybe 2k extra to our capacity. Beyond that, if wanted to grow again, we would be looking at a change to either the East or West stands, probably to the extent of starting from scratch, knocking down what we have, & building a new stand, sorting out the infrastructure for it, etc.

I doubt they could manage to build such a stand in the off season. The new South stand wasn't open for a number of matches after it was built, and that's a far simpler design than a new East or West stand would need to be. That would be a big hit on the club, as those seats & boxes are the most profitable for the club on a match day. Add in the upheaval of what to do with the Members (Season ticket Holder if you like) in that stand who would have to be compensated for loss of seat, re-seated somewhere for however long, etc.

The club have probably thought along such lines too. If they've been working with the council closely during all the upheaval at the college, they'll know the right people to be discussing this with. I'm pretty certain that the council are looking to get rid of that land as it's not fully used. Yes, there's a building there that has some historical value, but it's NOT a listed building, so it can be worked around.

Unlike some clubs that are physically restrained & can't expand (Gloucs for example are hemmed in completely), we have the chance to do a decent job of a new build if we can get the financing right. It'll probably mean a season not at the Stoop. My money would be on us using the Big Stoop under a deal with the RFU.

T-Bone

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It does make sense to go for a completely new stadium now rather than a patch up job with the North stand, for the reasons mentioned above.

In terms of the atmosphere, I'm not sure it would be too bad. Irish and Wasps struggle to get atmosphere in their new stadia, but that's in part because they have moved a long way from their traditional supporter base, and as a result probably left some of the old fans behind.

I hope they'd sell tickets all around a new stadium though, and maybe not open the upper rows at first, as I think it dilutes the atmosphere when both ends are completely empty.


The Absolute Quintet

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FF, all makes sense except it might 2 years at HQ if the council won't sell the depot (would they not want housing for the value), but perhaps we have a community share JV type arrangement coming?

If we can fit on the depot then there should be no need to go to HQ, which would be a sensible aim. Looking at it on Google Earth, the Stoop currently is (v roughly) 215m x 150m, including external access areas. The depot isn't a rectangle but is max 240m x 150m along its two long sides and 220m x 130m along its shortest two. This doesn't look promising for planning a stadium nearly twice the size. But I checked out Thomond Park, bang on 25,000, and that's on a 175m x 175m site but has two very high main stands and two piddly end stands. Re-configuring this to fit on the depot could mean three lesser but still probably 2 tier stands (north, east and south with the ground turned through 90 degs) and a single tier stand to the west against the houses. Looks entirely possible with a tall'ish steep-sided stadium, something like the totally intense Parcs de Sports Marcel Michelin perhaps? Now I'm a believer.....

Fearless Fred

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Here's a new copy of the image I made on the old CAW site when it was first mooted:



I've outlined in Red the area we could use without any changes to roads. W can't do much for Fire/H&S reasons to move right down to the bottom left corner. You need to have a way to evacuate spectators if there's an emergency, That said, there's space to the North & East that a stand can grow.
The reason I think we might need to move out for a while depends on the disruption that building a new North stand might have to the existing South stand/Food court/Quins Head area.

Chipstead Quin

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 Bath have submitted a proposal for to raise the new pitch by 3.8 m and put parking for 600 - 800 cars underneath it .

Occasional flooding issues apparently but hey ho .. , that certainly could help with parking issues at the Stoop , providing access and exiting was improved also .( and revenue on Match days at HQ)  - nice to see some blue sky thinking .

https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/sport/other-sport/car-park-under-raised-pitch-1822531
« Last Edit: Thursday 26-Jul-2018, 09:38* by Chipstead Quin »

 

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