+- +-

+-Newcomers Start Here

+-Harlequins/Rugby Links












+-Articles






Author Topic: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?  (Read 4542 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

DOK

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 941

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Monte

  • International Bench
  • ***
  • Posts: 561
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 07:04* »
Well done the Mail for finding this.

Robertquin

  • Junior Player
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 07:39* »
Here we go again...
Agree Agree x 1 View List

RodneyRegis

  • Baa Baas Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 08:10* »
Some of those sound like potentially more than salary cap breaches. Those sound a lot like taxable benefits if conferred to an employee.

Bucksquin

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 119
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 08:19* »
I smell a 'cover-up' in the wind, with Sarries lawyers threatening legal action against PRL et al ...
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Blucherquin

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 08:20* »
Here we go again indeed -- assume this is what Fissler had got wind of when he tweeted a couple of weeks back that a club was under investigation.

Good bit of work by the Mail.

Shall we all watch as the large broom sweeps the whole thing under the carpet?
Agree Agree x 1 View List

Mayor West

  • Premier Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 256
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 08:27* »
I suggested that they might be doing this on another thread. Seems daft to use your own name for the company but I suppose you are named as a director anyway.

DOK

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 941
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 09:38* »
As I understand it, it's not difficult to search Companies House for companies owned by a particular person. I'd have thought both the players involved and the original directors would have been better off with "off the shelf" companies and proxy directors later instead of the real players. So it doesn't look too hard to find once you start looking with Nigel Wray as director, but then again maybe he has thousands of companies in his name.

But in terms of sweeping it under the carpet, someone at the club told me a while ago they knew how Saracens were getting round the salary cap. So it may not be a big revelation to the clubs, but perhaps they can no longer ignore it now it's public.

marlowish

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 121
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 09:53* »
I smell a 'cover-up' in the wind, with Sarries lawyers threatening legal action against PRL et al ...

Which is exactly what they did last time and PRL bottled out.  That gave Sarries carte blanche to carry on cheating.  I see no reason that the outcome will be any different from the last fiasco. 
Sadly I am sure that PRL will bottle it again - slap on the wrist - don't be a naughty little boy - oh and carry on cheating. Vile club.


Quinky

  • Baa Baas Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 09:55* »
How to tell if they've breached the cap? Wait outside their offices and watch for carloads of expensive lawyers arriving... :)

The sticky issue for me is this: why should two individuals not start a business venture together? The fact that one owns the club and the other plays there may look a bit dodgy, but at the same time that shouldn't preclude them from going into business. It may well come down to how profits are shared out, whether funding was put in place by one party and the relevant paperwork legitimises this, whether the correct tax is paid etc.

It doesn't look good. But that doesn't mean it isn't legit. No doubt the club have been very careful in how they present this to the governing body.

marlowish

  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 121
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 09:58* »

Good bit of work by the Mail.

Shall we all watch as the large broom sweeps the whole thing under the carpet?

Brooms are already at the ready I have no doubt. 




But in terms of sweeping it under the carpet, someone at the club told me a while ago they knew how Saracens were getting round the salary cap. So it may not be a big revelation to the clubs, but perhaps they can no longer ignore it now it's public.

I would love to think you are right but it was ignored last time and I see no reason to think it will not be ignored this time. 

Some of those sound like potentially more than salary cap breaches. Those sound a lot like taxable benefits if conferred to an employee.

Yes indeed.  It would be good if HMRC get involved, they will not let it pass the way PRL did.

Glasgow Rangers were demoted 2 divisions for tax evasion on behalf of their players, the same should happen here if true.  "Something special is happening at Sarries" Yea ok. 

Fearless Fred

  • Lions Captain
  • ******
  • Posts: 1220
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 10:03* »
It's not uncommon for players to be directors of companies. Danny Care is a director of Danny Care Ltd. for example. It's financially a good idea for players to manage different revenue streams that they might have on top of their club wages, and I'm pretty sure the Mail reporter would be aware of this.

 I think the issue with what the Mail are reporting is that the companies in their report were originally set up by Wray and/or his Associates before the players were brought onboard as Directors. That's a different scenario. If they're simply being aided in setting up a company like DC has by Wray et al, then I'm sure they'll be able to explain that simply. If they obfuscate then I think there needs to be further investigation.

RodneyRegis

  • Baa Baas Starter
  • ****
  • Posts: 724
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 10:05* »
why should two individuals not start a business venture together?

Because one is employer and the other employee. It's like saying why should one guy not give another guy a house or car if he wants to? If they are an employee then a benefit is conferred. Similarly, if I invest in a business which is simply a vehicle for transferring funds from me to an employee then I'd better make sure I'm not evading tax...

Monte

  • International Bench
  • ***
  • Posts: 561
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 10:10* »
Yes but why set up companies under individual names and not do it all under one company? If the players wait to sell the house once they have finished playing that comes outside the salary cap and no one will probably notice. A very nice way of breaching the cap like paying into someone’s pension you let the housing market deliver the profits.

Quinky

  • Baa Baas Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 737
Re: Have Saracens broken salary cap rules?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 04-Mar-2019, 10:46* »
why should two individuals not start a business venture together?

Because one is employer and the other employee. It's like saying why should one guy not give another guy a house or car if he wants to? If they are an employee then a benefit is conferred. Similarly, if I invest in a business which is simply a vehicle for transferring funds from me to an employee then I'd better make sure I'm not evading tax...

Er, no it's not like that at all. People can go into business with whomever they like, regardless of their existing relationship. One person employing another doesn't automatically preclude them from going into business in an entirely different venture. It's not like "giving them a car or a house". Let's assume you are employed by someone, and you have a completely new business idea that you think may interest them; you approach them and suggest going into some form of partnership... should they decline because they employ you? No. But if you can point me to any legislation that says it's not allowed, I'd be really interested to see it.

What may be an issue is funding of the business activities, and I see you mention HMRC. However, provided it's all been properly recorded and declared (which we don't know), then it's hard to police it.

As I said earlier, just because it doesn't look good, that doesn't mean it's not legitimate. Part of me wants it to be found to contravene the rules - but my gut feeling is that it will be covered up, forgiven, found to be not worth challenging, or whatever.

Sarries - the best team money can buy.

 

+-User

Welcome, Guest.
Please login or register.
 
 
 
Forgot your password?

+-Site Statistics

Members
Total Members: 665
Latest: TeflonTed
New This Month: 4
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 27158
Total Topics: 1610
Most Online Today: 88
Most Online Ever: 455
(Saturday 22-Sep-2018, 17:51*)
Users Online
Members: 21
Guests: 64
Total: 85