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Author Topic: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....  (Read 2163 times)

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quinalan

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #30 on: Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 20:53* »
I thought our pack were absolutely fantastic. Really did a huge job on Ireland. Love it when we play like that. Lawes had a great game, so too did Daly. Having Itoje, Kruis, plus Lawes makes our line out a nightmare to defend against. Thought Ford was very classy too. Good performance all round by England. We dominated that & made Ireland look very ordinary! Glad CAW aren’t coaching the team!



 

Quintron

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #31 on: Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 22:36* »
Excellent performance all round.

Albig

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #32 on: Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 22:52* »
There is an argument that you pick best 15 players, rather than best players in positions.

Woodward did similar things with Lewsey and Robinson in back 3 and Hill and Back in backrow. Players adapted to positions and England got better. Is Dombrandt good enough at 8 or Simmons? If not play an 80 cap beast like Lawes and still keep Curry and Underhill.

Harleys Evil Step Mum

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #33 on: Monday 24-Feb-2020, 11:53* »
What happened to Mcconochie?? Good enough to go to a WC, but jettisoned back here?
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MaidstoneQuin

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #34 on: Monday 24-Feb-2020, 12:16* »
England certainly have got themselves back in the mix, just need to hope Ireland do us a favour when they meet France.

Its probably the best time for us to play Wales who are a bit low on confidence, so hopefully can replicate yesterday on the 7th. Credit to Daly at FB. I'll be surprised if we see Furbank anytime soon unless theres an injury crisis

Man From LA

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #35 on: Monday 24-Feb-2020, 16:10* »
Excellent performance all round.

If they were that excellent they would've got the BP against an Irish side past it's sell-by date at home.
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RodneyRegis

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 08:12* »
There is an argument that you pick best 15 players, rather than best players in positions.

Woodward did similar things with Lewsey and Robinson in back 3 and Hill and Back in backrow. Players adapted to positions and England got better. Is Dombrandt good enough at 8 or Simmons? If not play an 80 cap beast like Lawes and still keep Curry and Underhill.


It's a very weak argument.

Carbonm

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 08:46* »

Quinky

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #38 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 08:57* »
I love the way that when a team loses, many posters on here overlook how well the opposition played and just rip into their own team. When the team wins, they are quick to point out how poor the opposition were. Makes me laugh.

Carbonm

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #39 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 09:18* »
What happened to Mcconochie?? Good enough to go to a WC, but jettisoned back here?

It's a strange one as Eddie has picked Thorley in the squad but deemed him "not ready" for test rugby, yet Mcconnochie was deemed good enough to go to the world cup a few months ago and now doesn't get a look in.

Mayor West

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #40 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 09:38* »
It's a strange one as Eddie has picked Thorley in the squad but deemed him "not ready" for test rugby, yet Mcconnochie was deemed good enough to go to the world cup a few months ago and now doesn't get a look in.

I know it took up a squad place but it might have been a tactical move to stop him playing for Scotland. If Eddie thinks he is a future replacement for our current wings.

Fish Quin

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #41 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 09:59* »
I love the way that when a team loses, many posters on here overlook how well the opposition played and just rip into their own team. When the team wins, they are quick to point out how poor the opposition were. Makes me laugh.

It’s a fair point. But it is also fair to say Ireland were terrible and despite the win, that really wasn’t something to be proud of.

Two of our tries came directly from incompetence you wouldn’t expect from an under 10s game. If they had dealt with those, we likely would have lost as we just couldn’t threaten them with the ball in hand. Yes, the defence was very good, credit where it is due. But that’s hardly surprising give the pack he picked. There was no balance. Marler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Curry and Underhill are all defensive focussed players.

Jones got the selection wrong, as he has done so many times, but we got away with it because Ireland were poor and because we have some very good players.

In fact, As a nation I think our expectations are too low. We have won two of the last 4 six nations titles, if we fail this year it will be 3 years without a title. Just the one grand slam in that time - 2016. We failed to win the World Cup. Jones’ overall win rate is 76%. Against France and South Africa it’s 50%. It’s 60% against Scotland. I look at all of this and for me, it’s not good enough.

With the player pool currently available to England, we should be the most dominant team on the planet (consider for a moment that a guy who couldn’t get into the England training squad for a game against the Barbarians has just waltzed into the Wales starting 15 and is looking one of their better players!).  Jones needs to improve, but the worrying thing is he has had 4 and a bit years and all the signs suggest he is slowly moving in the wrong direction.


Quinky

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #42 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 11:33* »
It’s a fair point. But it is also fair to say Ireland were terrible and despite the win, that really wasn’t something to be proud of.

Two of our tries came directly from incompetence you wouldn’t expect from an under 10s game. If they had dealt with those, we likely would have lost as we just couldn’t threaten them with the ball in hand. Yes, the defence was very good, credit where it is due. But that’s hardly surprising give the pack he picked. There was no balance. Marler, Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, Curry and Underhill are all defensive focussed players.

Jones got the selection wrong, as he has done so many times, but we got away with it because Ireland were poor and because we have some very good players.

In fact, As a nation I think our expectations are too low. We have won two of the last 4 six nations titles, if we fail this year it will be 3 years without a title. Just the one grand slam in that time - 2016. We failed to win the World Cup. Jones’ overall win rate is 76%. Against France and South Africa it’s 50%. It’s 60% against Scotland. I look at all of this and for me, it’s not good enough.

With the player pool currently available to England, we should be the most dominant team on the planet (consider for a moment that a guy who couldn’t get into the England training squad for a game against the Barbarians has just waltzed into the Wales starting 15 and is looking one of their better players!).  Jones needs to improve, but the worrying thing is he has had 4 and a bit years and all the signs suggest he is slowly moving in the wrong direction.



I take your point. But a team can only play what's in front of them, and a win is a win. No team can say they "should" win anything - every victory needs to be earned, in a good way ideally, but ultimately it's the scoreboard that counts.

England didn't win the World Cup because SA were the best team in the tournament. But they came second which is never to be sniffed at. To say that they "should" be beating other teams because of the size of the player pool belies the fact that it's quality that counts. Look at NZ - a small pool but consistent winners. That's because they work hard for every victory.

raedarius

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #43 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 12:02* »
Large as England's player pool is, I would not rely on the RFU figures for player numbers.  Historically their record keeping has been sufficiently opaque that it has often been necessary to get a new RFU number when a player changes clubs, as the system can't recognise the old one.

Bolly-Quin

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Re: Think Jones may have lost the plot.....
« Reply #44 on: Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 12:22* »
What happened to Mcconochie?? Good enough to go to a WC, but jettisoned back here?

He was scoring tries against Quins to get his confidence back

 

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