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Author Topic: Joe Marler - Hero  (Read 2159 times)

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Quinky

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #60 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 13:32* »
Good debate - appreciate the way you're expressing yourself too and there is probably more convergence between our arguments than there might at first appear to be.

I'm all for helping those more vulnerable to become more resilient - think that's absolutely crucial too, you're right. I just really feel there's an opportunity to do something quite simple but effective within the constitutional concept of freedom of speech though. I really do feel there has to be some kind of responsibility taken by the person expressing their view - I just wish I had a definitive answer to your final question: "where is the line to be drawn?"

The truth is I'd need to go away and think properly on that before I came up with any kind of draft policy, but it just feels to me that the current situation whereby someone can claim freedom of speech is justification for putting other people in harm's way is skewed in the wrong direction. So too is the notion of stopping certain political groups speaking at universities or censorship for censorship's sake. Feels like there's a weird pinch at both ends of this argument and if we could iron out those two inadequacies then we'd have more of an all-rounder of a policy and people would have a more concrete understanding of what is and isn't acceptable when expressing yourself outwardly - especially on social media/in public.

TBQ, I think you're right - we are probably more aligned on this than it might at first have seemed.

A while back I heard someone say "The problem today is that everyone knows their rights, but nobody wants to know their responsibilities".

I agree that some use the "freedom of speech" excuse to be offensive and malicious, and many get away with a lot worse than what Folau has said in this instance. I wouldn't want to draw a line as to what is acceptable - is as variable as you can get, and you'll never find a line that everyone is happy with. For now I'll just adopt the stance that Folau is motivated by religion, and holds views that really aren't compatible with my own. It's clearly something that he feels the need to broadcast and he has to pay the consequences for that. As Blucher says in a later post, he's fallen foul of his employer's policies so I guess he's reaped his own rewards.

But again, thanks for an interesting, informed, and civil discussion.
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Quinky

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #61 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 13:32* »
Law has nothing to do with this but your astonishment at anything is quite unremarkable.

Thank you for another invaluable contribution.

MightyQ2

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #62 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 13:33* »
Have any of you seen the recent post by Billy Vunipola? (instagram)
Really interested to hear your thoughts.

poorfour

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #63 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 13:33* »
A nice piece here on the effect this sort of thing can have on young LGBT+ people

Good article. Sadly, if you scroll down there's a second article where Billy Vunipola has responded to Folau with some nonsense about "man was made for woman". It's nowhere near as bad, but it's just as ignorant. Muppet.
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Brown Bottle

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #64 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 13:42* »
Thank you for another invaluable contribution.

No problem.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #65 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:22* »
Have any of you seen the recent post by Billy Vunipola? (instagram)
Really interested to hear your thoughts.

Billy's monologue is less directly offensive and he's used some clever devices like using a rhetorical question to tone down the message but I guess I just wish he hadn't broadcast it. Ultimately it's up to him whether or not he feels the need to come out in support of Folau and he obviously felt compelled to but setting aside my own feelings/opinions for a second, it would seem more sensible for these guys to back each other in private rather than be philosophising in front of the world's media. That's what I would be advising them to do if I was their agent. No one's demanding that these guys become spokesmen for anything other than rugby - but again that's their prerogative.

If you want my personal opinion, I just feel sorry for Billy and Folau that they're so blinkered by their religion. As an atheist I come from a fairly extreme starting point - i.e. I'd hate to be what I perceive to be brainwashed into being so closed-minded. So given that their comments don't offend me personally, what else can I do but pity them? Feels to me like they're closing off a lot of opportunities to bond with others on a human level because they are somewhat repulsed by or afraid of people who live their lives differently. I'm sure they pity me - I'm that sinner they're talking about after all and I'm not going to be repenting any time soon. Keep Hell warm for me, I'm on my way...

The thing I can't ever square is the cop-out of repentance. Both Folau and Billy admit to having committed many of the sins on the list. The difference for them is just that quick check-in with their dude upstairs to say sorry. The whole thing doesn't really inspire me to believe that you've really bought into your religion if you're free to sin as much as you want - just as long as you apologise to the big man afterwards.

I have religious friends but it didn't take me long to realise that they all have something in common: they've taken a religion that is millennia old and realised that it makes more sense to transpose and adapt those teachings/moral codes into the world we actually live in now. If everyone did that I suspect we wouldn't have these issues. It baffles me that these people can't or don't want to, but that's their life - I'll just have fun over here swinging both ways and turning up at The Stoop just after 1pm tomorrow to get as many rounds in before the game as is humanly possible.

Quinky

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #66 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:27* »
It's said that religion is the cause of many of the world's problems, past and present.

Gone

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #67 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:11* »
It sadly means that Billy Vunipola is another one who appears to believe being gay is "against god".

Being afraid of death therefore creating a magical person in the sky to help protect yourselves from the randomness and futility of existence is one thing (see, that's my freedom of speech right there - it's all genetics Billy, you're not a "thing" you're just some genes that want to carry on and really don't mind who or what you are or what you think or believe so chill out).

Using that belief in order to tell people that they're putting their **** into the wrong hole is quite another.

More specifically, as Tom posts - so Billy somehow has constructed his religious world to believe that his sins can be forgiven but liking **** isn't. It's all rather dull.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #68 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:21* »
Oh. My reading of Issy and Billy's posts was that I just had to close my eyes and say sorry immediately after my next Grindr hookup - is that not how it works? Damn.
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Gone

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #69 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:29* »
Oh. My reading of Issy and Billy's posts was that I just had to close my eyes and say sorry immediately after my next Grindr hookup - is that not how it works? Damn.

As far as I can tell he can say sorry for being drunk but you can't say sorry for a reach around.
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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #70 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:31* »
Ah well, that makes things easier - guess I'll just go back to having a good time before I turn to dust then.

quintastic.

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #71 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 16:04* »
He's started on Vunipola now too!
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Gone

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #72 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 16:08* »

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #73 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 16:09* »
He's just brilliant. Need more public figures like Joe Marler. You know what? #JM4PM

Fearless Fred

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #74 on: Friday 12-Apr-2019, 16:19* »
Now that he's no longer got the pressure of International representation, I think Joe's rediscovered his fun side & it shows. I hope when he retires whoever is broadcasting the Premiership employs him as a colour commentator!

 

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