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Author Topic: Joe Marler - Hero  (Read 2161 times)

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poorfour

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:25* »
He's allowed to *hold* whatever views he wants. The issue is that he repeatedly tweets negative things about a minority group who have historically been persecuted. If society allows people with a public profile to say these things, then it normalises them, and makes it OK for other people to say them or act on them.

Everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs - but they aren't entitled to infringe other people's rights because of those beliefs.
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never sleep

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:25* »
But, what bit of the bible is he quoting though?
If looks a bit like the part from the letter from St Paul to the Corinthians - but St Paul doesn't tell them that they are going to Hell. 
So, it must be from Revelations - but that doesn't have the same list of sinners.

I actually think that he just found some mad ramblings on a social network and re-posted them.  Remember, it was George Washington that warned about re-posting random stuff that you find on social media.  As a result, I do think that he deserves criticism.

poorfour

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:27* »
Anyway, well done Joe. A proper rugby response from a properly good bloke.

Gone

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #18 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:27* »
I have to say I agree.  I do not agree with one word he said but there again he does not have to agree with my views.  Liberals are all very liberal as long as everyone agrees with them and their opinion and world view.  As soon as anyone has a different opinion then liberals say they should not be allowed to express or even think it.  How very liberal of them. 

Like you I am equally offended by the PC nonsense and the way everyone is offended by everything and thinks that the only thin g that matters is their own point of view.

So do you hate gay people? That's what this is about.

Grow up and stop pretending that there's a world where it's oppressive to be told that it's no long acceptable to hate gay people or black people or the disabled.

That's all this is about - it's not about you pretending that you're being held back from "thinking what you like".

You're almost certainly old enough to remember "no blacks, no Irish" signs and "Paki" being shouted as people who happened to be brown were beaten up on the street.

Thankfully we decided as a country that rather than be a place where people are stoned to death or imprisoned because they happen to prefer a **** to a ****, we didn't really care.
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #19 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:50* »
Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....?

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #20 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:57* »
As a bisexual person myself, it's sad (and will always remain utterly baffling) that he thinks the way he does but I don't pretend to think I can change his views. I also happen to be an atheist but if I were in his position, in the public eye, I certainly wouldn't be posting that all religious people are [insert high and mighty, ultimately unprovable, subjective-masquerading-as-fact ramblings here]. The issue is exactly as Blucher describes. If someone like myself (on the LGBTQ+ spectrum), but who also has the added ongoing struggle of trying to knead that sexuality into religious beliefs that have been gift-wrapped for them by their parents, let's say adolescent... if that person reads these views from someone they admire, what do you realistically expect them to feel about themselves? And I fully expect the "well they just need to stop being a snowflake" response from all the heterosexual white men out there but then that's just lack of compassion and they know it. I'm glad I'm an atheist and always have been - it makes my life a hell (pun intended) of a lot easier and I have no guilt or shame whatsoever. But there are teenagers out there right now on Reddit/Tumblr discussing how to commit suicide and this type of action from a world class sportsman is in no way "Christian" under the definition I'm led to believe Christians want to be portrayed as.

Lest we forget: freedom of speech is a man-made construct of quite some centuries ago. And it needs serious modernising. It needs to come attached with responsibility - simple as that. Understand that you have that right, but it is a privilege to be human and to have a working mind that can take in and retain new information. So go one step further and before posting on Twitter that people like me are going to burn in Hell (lol, barking up a tree that doesn't exist in my view of course) you have the responsibility to understand that some teenager currently has a knife piercing the skin on their wrist with the option of pushing harder if so triggered. If you're still okay with publishing your Tweet at that point then your views become something much more than just about freedom of speech.
« Last Edit: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:00* by TomBuckQuin »
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Fearless Fred

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:01* »
As a bisexual person myself, it's sad (and will always remain utterly baffling) that he thinks the way he does but I don't pretend to think I can change his views. I also happen to be an atheist but if I were in his position, in the public eye, I certainly wouldn't be posting that all religious people are [insert high and mighty, ultimately unprovable, subjective-masquerading-as-fact ramblings here]. The issue is exactly as Blucher describes. If someone like myself (on the LGBTQ+ spectrum), but who also has the added ongoing struggle of trying to knead that sexuality into religious beliefs that have been gift-wrapped for them by their parents, let's say adolescent... if that person reads these views from someone they admire, what do you realistically expect them to feel about themselves? And I fully expect the "well they just need to stop being a snowflake" response from all the heterosexual white men out there but then that's just lack of compassion and they know it. I'm glad I'm an atheist and always have been - it makes my life a hell (pun intended) of a lot easier and I have no guilt or shame whatsoever. But there are teenagers out there right now on Reddit/Tumblr discussing how to commit suicide and this type of action from a world class sportsman is in no way "Christian" under the definition I'm led to believe Christians want to be portrayed as.

Lest we forget: freedom of speech is a man-made construct of quite some centuries ago. And it needs serious modernising. It needs to come attached with responsibility - simple as that. Understand that you have that right, but it is a privilege to be human and to have a working mind that can take in and retain new information. So go one step further and before posting on Twitter that people like me are going to burn in Hell (lol, barking up a tree that doesn't exist in my view of course) you have the responsibility to understand that some teenager currently has a knife piercing the skin on their wrist with the option of pushing harder if so triggered. If you're still okay with publishing your Tweet at that point then your views become something much more than just about freedom of speech.

Well said!
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never sleep

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:04* »
Doesn't really apply in this case.
e.g. If I came onto this site and started spouting hate messages against an ethnic minority (e.g. Black people or Jewish people), then I would expect some action to be taken against me.
Also, for example, if I started spreading lies about Blucherquin that were damaging to his business or private life.  Then I would also expect action to be taken against me.
Or, I got very drunk one night and re-tweeted some anti gay ramblings I found on a social networking site, then, I would also expect consequences.
I can clearly say whatever I like.  I just have to expect consequences.
Don't do the crime if you are not prepared to do the time, etc.


Gone

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #23 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:13* »
Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....?

Well it ironically sometimes get taken out of context but was never about being free to publicly abuse minorities.

poorfour

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #24 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:17* »
Whatever happened to "I disagree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it"....?

It got refined to include "...unless what you're saying is directly harmful to another person."

Not all rights are equal. Your right not to be offended, or to say whatever you want is less important than someone else's right to freedom from harassment and discrimination. When two people's rights come into conflict,  humane societies determine precedence by looking at which option causes the least overall harm.
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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #25 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:23* »
It got refined to include "...unless what you're saying is directly harmful to another person."

Not all rights are equal. Your right not to be offended, or to say whatever you want is less important than someone else's right to freedom from harassment and discrimination. When two people's rights come into conflict,  humane societies determine precedence by looking at which option causes the least overall harm.

This. This is what I was trying to say. I just took quadruple the amount of words to say it 10 x less effectively.

Quinky

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #26 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:38* »
Did you not see the new article it was relating too?
Plus I suggest you look on Instagram, I think then you’ll understand the uproar on the situation

Actually, I don't trust much of what news sites spout, so I either don't read them or I don't take them as gospel (no pun intended).

I looked on Instagram, and the first thing I read seemed to be religious ramblings. Hence my earlier post. As for uproar, there's usually uproar from some sector of society. That's why I posted what I thought was a perfectly reasonable question.

Fursty

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:38* »
I'm firmly of the opinion that within reason you should allow people to spout whatever nonsense they like - you can then show them up for how ridiculous their views are. e.g Nick Griffin appearing on question time. Oppressing debate and conversation is counterproductive leads to people justifying their views on the grounds that they in turn feel oppressed.

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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #28 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:48* »
Freedom of Speech? There are at least 2 puns above that remain unpun-ished by Kim Il Dok.
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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Joe Marler - Hero
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:51* »
But I intended my pun into being and punned freely as a result. My pun did no harm. I will defend that pun to your death Deadly.

 

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