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Author Topic: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie  (Read 1159 times)

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honkytonk

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 17:52* »
EJ may surprise!!

RodneyRegis

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 18:29* »
So he's replaced Farell with JJ a 10/12 with a 13? Further muddying the centre selection....
Looks like Shields is out too, bit early for Robshaw, guess Wilson might get the call?

What do you mean? Wilson is the incumbent - and injured.
« Last Edit: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 18:37* by RodneyRegis »

RodneyRegis

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 18:31* »
Agree to disagree on this one I think! Kicking was never one of Nonu's strengths for a start - so he didn't kick much and was very, very effective going forward. Obviously a 12 but still...

Also disagree that he doesn't have defensive skills equal to JJ. JJ often jumps out of the line and creates dog legs - Marchant rarely. Slade for me is the man to supplant - he's been great for England lately - but I'd have Marchant and Tompkins fighting it out in behind (assuming we're treating Manu as a 12). I don't care how proven JJ is - he's been injured the whole season. He played his first game of the season this weekend just gone. Clifford has at least strung a bunch of games together.

Dingwall is too light for now and Lawrence has a handful of starts for Warriors. They're nowhere near Marchant who, although still young, has been our Prem starting 13 ever since G-Lowe's unfortunate injury problems/retirement - and I can't remember him having a bad game. Honestly, I can't.

I'm not one to get carried away about our players but he is a natural class act.
Slade has been great for England? Tompkins?

Twickersman

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 19:41* »
Henry Slade is so frustrating. He drops the ball so much after contact. I'm still yet to see him string together a few games where he has dominated his opposite 13. He got seriously outplayed against Munster.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 20:38* »
Slade has been great for England? Tompkins?

Yup, Slade was impressive in the autumn - came straight in and looked the business. Tompkins has been playing out of his skin for Sarries. He's in the mix I'm sure. Obviously I'd rather Marchant over all of them because he's our boy - and I do also think he's earned a call-up.

RhubarbAndGustard

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 23-Jan-2019, 21:19* »
Personally think JJ is only in the squad to bring him up to speed, with no intentions of him playing v Ireland - in the year he's had out England have got a new defence coach and a new attack coach, so much will be different so the more time he can have before the WC the better. He's been one of EJ's top performers since he took over the reigns in early 2016 and despite his year out is the joint top try-scorer for England under EJ (12, joint with Jonny May), he is an important cog for the WC.

Joe Marchant is one of the most consistent 13s in the prem, but test rugby is very different to premiership rugby, and we are pretty well stocked at 13 right now. He'll get his chance, but Manu, Slade, JJ, and Lozowski (Daly is another option and Te'o too if EJ plays Faz at 12 again), are all well above him in the pecking order. He's only 22, those four all have 3+ years on him, give him time and he'll be in and around there.

JammyGit

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #21 on: Thursday 24-Jan-2019, 18:23* »
Tompkins is really good now. Slade is such a luxury player, he's just not up to it.

InsertQuinsPunHere

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #22 on: Thursday 24-Jan-2019, 21:30* »
What do you mean by "luxury player"?

A222Quin

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #23 on: Friday 25-Jan-2019, 10:33* »
I see what Jammy means. For me Slade is moments of greatness but also a lot of meh. I rate Tompkins a lot.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #24 on: Friday 25-Jan-2019, 11:13* »
I personally think Slade has improved a lot. When he moved to 13 initially he was very shaky and looked out of his depth - I was ready to write him off. Always thought of him as a 12 and wondered whether he might make an alright full back. Now I get it. He really keeps things moving in the wider channels. It's actually quite useful having a natural distributor in the wider channels these days - especially as there's less and less space in the middle of the field now that players are quite literally double the size they were 20 years ago. Having a bruiser like Manu inside him I think could work really nicely. Slade also has really good feet.

Either way, I'd have Slade + Marchant/Tompkins in the squad instead of Slade + Joseph at the moment. I'm sorry, I understand what people are saying about Joseph being the seasoned pro etc and being in and around the squad to pick up systems ahead of the world cup, but it's more about the precedent it sets. Nobody the likes of Joseph in his current and recent form should be able to just walk (or hobble) into an England squad. There's other players who deserve it more currently - and I mean that on the basis of Joseph's form before his injury lay off (don't know if everyone's forgotten but he was a shadow of himself, regardless of whether or not you can put that down to carrying niggles).

Now if we were talking about a player like Owen Farrell then it's potentially a different story, because he's clearly head and shoulders above the rest in his position - although you could press cases in favour of a Cipriani or a Ford depending on where your allegiances lie. Joseph, on the back of his pre-injury form, is not in that category. 2.5/3 years ago when he was really flying is maybe a different story.

Don't get me wrong, not saying I don't like Joseph as a player. At his best he really is one of the best 13s in the world. But he's not at his best and hasn't been for a while. Make him earn it.

Yareet

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 27-Jan-2019, 10:07* »
I personally think Slade has improved a lot. When he moved to 13 initially he was very shaky and looked out of his depth - I was ready to write him off. Always thought of him as a 12 and wondered whether he might make an alright full back. Now I get it. He really keeps things moving in the wider channels. It's actually quite useful having a natural distributor in the wider channels these days - especially as there's less and less space in the middle of the field now that players are quite literally double the size they were 20 years ago. Having a bruiser like Manu inside him I think could work really nicely. Slade also has really good feet.

Either way, I'd have Slade + Marchant/Tompkins in the squad instead of Slade + Joseph at the moment. I'm sorry, I understand what people are saying about Joseph being the seasoned pro etc and being in and around the squad to pick up systems ahead of the world cup, but it's more about the precedent it sets. Nobody the likes of Joseph in his current and recent form should be able to just walk (or hobble) into an England squad. There's other players who deserve it more currently - and I mean that on the basis of Joseph's form before his injury lay off (don't know if everyone's forgotten but he was a shadow of himself, regardless of whether or not you can put that down to carrying niggles).

Now if we were talking about a player like Owen Farrell then it's potentially a different story, because he's clearly head and shoulders above the rest in his position - although you could press cases in favour of a Cipriani or a Ford depending on where your allegiances lie. Joseph, on the back of his pre-injury form, is not in that category. 2.5/3 years ago when he was really flying is maybe a different story.

Don't get me wrong, not saying I don't like Joseph as a player. At his best he really is one of the best 13s in the world. But he's not at his best and hasn't been for a while. Make him earn it.

In theory I agree with your last paragraph but the massive factor for me is that we are in a World Cup year.

It’s almost too late to be adding new players into the mix. Eddie has this 6N to confirm his squad (injury permitting) so those who have been in and around the squad since the Lions tour are basically it.

Assuming therefore that Joseph is highly likely to be in the RWC squad, having him get to know new attack and defence coaches’ systems for the first time during the RWC warm up games feels negligent.

JammyGit

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Re: Kinda OT: JJ called up by Eddie
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 27-Jan-2019, 11:55* »
What do you mean by "luxury player"?

He's the sort of guy you can't rely on but will now and then look amazing. Chiefs can carry him in the hope that he'll provide some sorely needed creativity, but England can't afford his brainfarts and his defensive howlers. He can look a million pounds but is usually a net negative.

TomBuckQuin: I appreciate what Slade brings and it's one of the reasons I like Loz as a 13, but Slade misses an insane number of tackles and makes a lot of errors.

 

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