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Author Topic: Leicester Tigers: Players could still represent England even in Championship, says RFU boss Nigel Me  (Read 867 times)

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Yareet

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The two aren't mutually exclusive. Who says playing younger, faster, more in form (admittedly less-capped) players would sabotage our 6N chances? It's not like we've been consistently 1st/2nd in the 6N when selecting our supposedly experienced players!

6N since RWC 2011:

2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd
Slam
Winners
5th
2nd

Pretty consistent in 1st/2nd, I'd say.

Brown Bottle

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TomBuckQuin, you're all over the place, mate. :)

TomBuckQuin

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Fair enough. Not quite so great when you go back to 2003, as is the way I've been thinking about this whole debate - but I concede that having now looked at the table going back to that famous WC win it does seem we've been 2nd more times than anything else. A few 3rd/4th/5ths thrown in for good measure and then a few championships. Still, we were 5th only last year (with only 2 wins) and given my other arguments about player pool we should be winning it every year. Think they call it English arrogance, I call it the way it really should be.
« Last Edit: Thursday 28-Mar-2019, 14:43* by TomBuckQuin »

Yareet

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Still, we were 5th only last year (with only 2 wins) and given my other arguments about player pool we should be winning it every year. Think they call it English arrogance, I call it the way it really should be.

Think we can all agree that 5th was an aberration butin every sense of the word as it was the only time we have finished that low since it became 6N.

For me, the problem with saying we should win because we have the biggest player pool is that it ignores everything sport is about. Because of factors you can't measure - the Cardiff crowd being a great example - no game (of anything) should be a forgone conclusion.


Or else why do we bother with matches?

TomBuckQuin

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Yeah, when I say "we should win" I am of course talking in aspirational terms - i.e. from an English point-of-view. It should be unacceptable to an England squad to expect anything less of themselves going into the 6N each time. And then statistically we should be winning it more often than not too, even taking into account other factors like the fact the 6N is imperfect in terms of its structure and the switching home advantage each time. I'd personally like to see us winning 1 in 2 6N championships minimum - ideally 2 in 3 and coming second when we don't win it. That's if we're talking about fielding our optimum team each year (i.e. blend of experienced players and hot shots as we have been doing).

But my point some are trying so hard to deflect from is that it is evidently not the case that we are achieving success more often than not with that approach. So then why wouldn't you use the 6N as a development competition in the 2/3 years post-WC? I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with much the same 6N record as Yareet has listed above...

Lyndo76

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I'd be interested to see what happens when the bigger squad gets together before EJ slims it down to the playing squad. What happens when the "in-form for their club" players are put into the practices? Do some not fit with the style and philosophy that EJ has in mind? Do they not show the same form as they do for their club? how much does the opposition dictate the approach (ignoring the Scotland game as an example :D)

A222Quin

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Yeah, when I say "we should win" I am of course talking in aspirational terms - i.e. from an English point-of-view. It should be unacceptable to an England squad to expect anything less of themselves going into the 6N each time. And then statistically we should be winning it more often than not too, even taking into account other factors like the fact the 6N is imperfect in terms of its structure and the switching home advantage each time. I'd personally like to see us winning 1 in 2 6N championships minimum - ideally 2 in 3 and coming second when we don't win it. That's if we're talking about fielding our optimum team each year (i.e. blend of experienced players and hot shots as we have been doing).

But my point some are trying so hard to deflect from is that it is evidently not the case that we are achieving success more often than not with that approach. So then why wouldn't you use the 6N as a development competition in the 2/3 years post-WC? I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with much the same 6N record as Yareet has listed above...

Are you assuming the other nations take the same approach?

raedarius

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Anyone with an RFU number who has changed clubs, or any club administrator who has tried to locate the RFU number for a player who has transferred to them, will tell you that the number of 'registered' players in England is in no way representative of the true playing pool.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Beware the wounded Tiger. They always come good after their Internationals return. We are going to be playing them at the worst possible time.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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To use Pakistan Cricket and Gareth Southgate as examples, if you are good enough you are old enough.
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