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Author Topic: Leinster v Sarries is it really cheats should never prosper  (Read 1605 times)

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MadMax

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With the Bloodgate we foolishly cheated,and we were rightfully demote.
This resulted in a 12-month ban for Williams, (reduced to four months on appeal), a three-year ban for former rugby director Dean Richards, and a two-year ban for physical therapist Steph Brennan from the ERC with a £ 260,000 fine for the club
The Saracens have been cheating for 3 years, winning championships and cups they otherwise could not have won.
Don't care if they played good or bad yesterday, they just didn't have to play.
Have they cheated for 3 years?
For 3 years no participation European cup and they remain in the RFU Championship for 3 years.
Players involved who knew about the scam, should also be disqualified  for 3 years

It was six years of cheating.

AdrianB

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We cheated once,

No. We were caught once!

maybetomorrow

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It was six years of cheating.

I had understood 3 years

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/23/dyson-report-saracens-salary-cap-breaches-deal-by-deal

if there were 6, instead of 3 put the 6 in each penalty

Yareet

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Genuine question to those who are criticising Sarries. At what point are they no longer cheats?

poorfour

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Genuine question to those who are criticising Sarries. At what point are they no longer cheats?

When they have served their time in the Championship, and we have an effective salary framework that enables them to be policed. My preference would be for players to share their tax returns with the salary cap manager, as it’s pretty hard to get around that.

Mayor West

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Their punishment still seems light compared to Richmond and London Welsh. Anyway how will their England players fare when the Championship doesn’t  appear to have a start date. They might not have any game time at all.

MadMax

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I had understood 3 years

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jan/23/dyson-report-saracens-salary-cap-breaches-deal-by-deal

if there were 6, instead of 3 put the 6 in each penalty

Yes but don't forget that prior to that they paid a settlement fee (scandalously supported by the other Premiership clubs except Quins & Wasps) to end an investigation which had found cheating in the previous three years. Plus they promised not to repeat the cheating.
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MadMax

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Genuine question to those who are criticising Sarries. At what point are they no longer cheats?

For me when they show some genuine contrition and most importantly when those that organised the cheating are no longer associated with the club. Until then they remain a corrupt club in my eyes.
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Banstead Quin

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MW, you don't seriously believe that any of their England players will actually play in the Championship, do you? They will go to the Southern Hemisphere as Joe Marchant did and get a nice pay day there and then they'll all convene back at Allianz Park when they are promoted back to the Prem.

The bigger worry for me is how PRL can ensure that they are within the cap once all of the big names return?

Le Tiss

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Sarries did what they did specifically to try and be competitive in this competition in an attempt to level the playing field against the French teams. Domestically the salary cap is needed and makes perfect sense but leaves our club sides at a huge disadvantage if they comply with the rules. It is this competition itself that generated the desire for unscrupulous owners to go down the path they chose. It definitely irritates me that for the next few years it is highly unlikely an English team will get to a European final, let alone win it. Makes you wonder if its worth even entering the competition at all really.
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Richard Wigglesworth said Saracens’ victory over Leinster was in part down to a determination to show their success in recent years was not down to cheating the Premiership’s salary cap

Does that mean someone at Sarries is actually publicly admitting that they did cheat? Also, does he not realise they would not be the team they are now otherwise?

poorfour

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Sarries did what they did specifically to try and be competitive in this competition in an attempt to level the playing field against the French teams. Domestically the salary cap is needed and makes perfect sense but leaves our club sides at a huge disadvantage if they comply with the rules. It is this competition itself that generated the desire for unscrupulous owners to go down the path they chose. It definitely irritates me that for the next few years it is highly unlikely an English team will get to a European final, let alone win it. Makes you wonder if its worth even entering the competition at all really.

So, you don't reckon Exeter have what it takes? Because they looked like they did yesterday, albeit against English opposition. And they've done it without overspending the cap as far as anyone knows.

RocQuin

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So, you don't reckon Exeter have what it takes? Because they looked like they did yesterday, albeit against English opposition. And they've done it without overspending the cap as far as anyone knows.
Speaking as a decades long Quins supporter, I will gladly give my backing to Exeter when watching them progress in the Champions Cup. They have always come across as an honest club, with an honest and very capable man in chatter with Rob Baxter.
I could never ever have similar thoughts towards Saracens, who have deprived other clubs, especially Exeter, from winning competitions that on a level playing field would have had a different outcome.
What especially riles me is the media constantly referring to the cheats as defending champions etc, and the fact that Saracens staff, players and coaches, not to mention the supporters, still do not appear to accept that they have done anything wrong, and are feeling hard done by; additionally there are no visible signs that anything will change should they return to the Premiership.

And before somebody says Quins were caught cheating, yes we were, but we didn’t gain any benefit whatsoever from those actions, in fact, we suffered considerable losses in many areas, including heads rolling, and seen to be rolling, and a long term stigma, which many seem reluctant to move on from.

Anyway, the way things are shaping up right now on the Covid-19 front, the whole fabric of professional rugby in our country is under threat.
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T-Bone

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I really didn't like the whole narrative around this game, spread by many pundits who I thought better of. The whole "Sarries last dance" thing, the final fling of a team about to be broken up. They've still got plenty of internationals.

On the other hand, I don't particularly like Leinster, can't stand the general fawning over them. Their budget is huge, they can manage their players safe in the knowledge that they can get to the play offs of the P14 without any effort at all. Going unbeaten in that league isn't that special really.

So it came down to an English side vs an Irish one and I was glad Sarries won - they deserved it based on the game. Two teams full of internationals who have had unlimited player budgets in recent times. So not really good vs evil.
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Yareet

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which many seem reluctant to move on from.

Which is why (with respect to those who answered) I don't see the "Cheats" label being shed any time soon. Even though Quins have admitted their wrongdoing, even though Richards (et al) have gone, even though Quins served their punishment Bloodgate is still brought up.

 

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