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Author Topic: O/T - Should there be relegation from the 6 nations?  (Read 1593 times)

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TeddingtonQuin

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For info, Georgia have played Italy 3 times and lost all three.  Only one of the games is recent and in my opinion, not a massive amount between them. (Italy scored 3 tries to Georgia's 2)
Here is the detail from the game in 2018  - Italy 28 - 17 Georgia
http://en.espn.co.uk/statsguru/rugby/match/299413.html

Yes, Italy are consistently ahead of Georgia in the rankings but you're ignoring the fact that Georgia have improved hugely while Italy have not, despite having the advantage of 20 years in the 6N

They really don't deserve it anymore!

Yareet

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Yes, Italy are consistently ahead of Georgia in the rankings but you're ignoring the fact that Georgia have improved hugely while Italy have not, despite having the advantage of 20 years in the 6N

They really don't deserve it anymore!

Or looked at another way, Georgia are consistently playing against teams which are weaker than them whilst Italy are playing against teams which are better. This also has an impact on the rankings.

For me, we can only say that Italy haven’t improved relative to the other tier 1 nations. They don’t play tier 2 nations (even Georgia) often enough to say that Georgia are catching them.

Italy are bottom of tier 1, Georgia are top of tier 2. What the gap between tiers 1 and 2 is, we cannot say.
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InsertQuinsPunHere

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Or looked at another way, Georgia are consistently playing against teams which are weaker than them whilst Italy are playing against teams which are better. This also has an impact on the rankings.

For me, we can only say that Italy haven’t improved relative to the other tier 1 nations. They don’t play tier 2 nations (even Georgia) often enough to say that Georgia are catching them.

Italy are bottom of tier 1, Georgia are top of tier 2. What the gap between tiers 1 and 2 is, we cannot say.

What I wanted to say, only said better than I could have done.

TeddingtonQuin

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Or looked at another way, Georgia are consistently playing against teams which are weaker than them whilst Italy are playing against teams which are better. This also has an impact on the rankings.

For me, we can only say that Italy haven’t improved relative to the other tier 1 nations. They don’t play tier 2 nations (even Georgia) often enough to say that Georgia are catching them.

Italy are bottom of tier 1, Georgia are top of tier 2. What the gap between tiers 1 and 2 is, we cannot say.

That's how the rankings work, they are weighted to take account of the strength of the opposition, their ranking and match location, home or away. Georgia have climbed the rankings, Italy have not and been overtaken by another improving team, Japan

MaidstoneQuin

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Georgia can only beat the teams that are infront of them.

I’d happy if after a few years of taking Italys place and having the same fate I’d support reverting to 5 nations, but whatever the consensus is, Italy don’t deserve their spot. They might put in a spirited game and get a shock result once every 3-4 years but they’ve not developed and it spits in the faces of nations like Georgia IMO. A bit like having someone in your office who’s constantly late, messes everything up... replace or scrap the position.

SwindonQuin

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Id have a two tier system wiht the 6 Nations as the top and a Secondary Nations below, the bottom of the 6 Nations has a two leg play off (home & away) vs the winner of the Secondary Nations team to decided who either moves up to the six nations or remains in the league.

At least then the wooden spoon team in the 6 Nations has to prove they are good enough to remain in the competition and also gives the 'smaller' European rugby teams a chance to compete at the 6 Nations Level.

The teams I would include in the secondary league would be:
Georgia
Spain
Russia
Portugal
Netherlands
Belgium (based on current world rankings, alternative of Germany)

Yareet

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Id have a two tier system wiht the 6 Nations as the top and a Secondary Nations below, the bottom of the 6 Nations has a two leg play off (home & away) vs the winner of the Secondary Nations team to decided who either moves up to the six nations or remains in the league.

At least then the wooden spoon team in the 6 Nations has to prove they are good enough to remain in the competition and also gives the 'smaller' European rugby teams a chance to compete at the 6 Nations Level.

The teams I would include in the secondary league would be:
Georgia
Spain
Russia
Portugal
Netherlands
Belgium (based on current world rankings, alternative of Germany)

I guess the issue with this is that you end up with the current club rugby situation in England - i.e. whoever goes down will probably bounce straight back up.

If the aim is to give the tier 2 countries regular games v tier 1 (and thereby improve the standard of tier 2), constant flitting between tier 1 and tier 2 isn't going to help.
 IMHO it would be better to give more nations more regular games v tier countries. Maybe the Saxons, Wolfhounds, etc should play in the shadow 6N.

I'd also argue that Italy have demonstrably improved relative to the other 6N countries. I remember a game in the early 2000s where England rested sufficient players that they were able to simultaneously bring on 4 subs who had all captained their country: Johnson, Dallaglio, Dawson and Leonard. Whilst we may still play a somewhat weaker team, I feel we are unlikely to see a similar tactic again.

Fearless Fred

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Any promoted country is going to want to have at least 2 years in the top level competition, so that they can get home games against all 5 top level countries, particularly for financial reason. Similarly the rest of the 2nd level countries will want the same vs the relegated country.

You wouldn't want to do it in the run up to a RWC either, not in a Lions year. But the Lions  sort of highlights the issue regarding England & players at saracens next season. Would any Lions head coach want to pick players who aren't playing at the top level of International competition?

DOK

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JammyGit

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That article suggests Italy In, South Africa Also In.

Mayor West

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What will New Zealand and Australia do, get Japan and the Islands involved.

DOK

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I thought Italy played well enough against France. They were competitive. It wasn't all one way traffic. They weren't embarrassed by how they played.
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