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Author Topic: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?  (Read 787 times)

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MaidstoneQuin

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OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:17* »
Whilst Saturday saw an improved England performance from ones in 2022, it was still the same result we have come to expect.

With changes almost certain (if SB has any sense) to be made, what would your team be for Italy, who will be a very tough game. If we even approach this as we might have a few years ago as some game to "rest" players or try things out, we are in for another familiar outcome considering how well they played yesterday.

1. Genge (c)
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Chessum
5. Ribbans
6. Ludlam
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt

9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Murley
12. Tuilagi
13. Marchant
14. Malins
15. Steward

16. Rodd
17. Walker
18. Cole
19. Itoje
20. Willis
21. JVP
22. Farrell
23. Watson

Hard to call with dropping Lawrence, who I would be happy at 12, however I'm not 100% how much he has played there.


I think this selection gives us better ruck speed, which will be important. Scotland dominated us there, and I feel Mitchell would be a better pick as JVP in my view was fairly slow at the base. I'd be happy to swap Earl for Willis but Willis can cover back row/8 from bench.
« Last Edit: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:19* by MaidstoneQuin »
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SunburyQuin

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #1 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:24* »
I agree with this team wholeheartedly, with the possible exception of 12 - I would have Lawrence there instead of Tuilagi. An Andre-like runner at 12 inside Marchant who doesn't make cheap-shots & draws penalties is preferable.

Yareet

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #2 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:36* »
Not a game to try things out..

Just 5 changes to the 15
And another 4 on the bench
Drop the captain
Completely new 2nd row combo
Completely new back row combo [I'm happy to be corrected on these two points as I'm working from memory]
Start a 9 who wasn't in the last 23
Two uncapped players

In isolation, each of those changes has merit. Aggregated, they have a hint of trying things out
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MaidstoneQuin

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:40* »
Not a game to try things out..

Just 5 changes to the 15
And another 4 on the bench
Drop the captain
Completely new 2nd row combo
Completely new back row combo [I'm happy to be corrected on these two points as I'm working from memory]
Start a 9 who wasn't in the last 23
Two uncapped players

In isolation, each of those changes has merit. Aggregated, they have a hint of trying things out

I could of made a few more but it probably wouldn't help, but the core of the team is there. I don't think OHC will get dropped after one game though and will get another chance. The others coming in, bar maybe Earl and Mitchell have all been in the setup fairly recently so I don't think it would be as big of change as chucking in someone brand new, such as trying Kelly and Lawrence together (If that makes sense). Personally I would see the team I have picked as a solid team for the tournament, rather than a "see how it goes" type thing, as if SB is all about picking on form, then really the players I've dropped shouldn't be there.

If I was to pick changes more realistic, I would say the two most important ones would be Ribbans for Itoje and Tuilagi/Lawrence for Farrell, with the 2 sarries on the bench.
« Last Edit: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:50* by MaidstoneQuin »

JammyGit

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 09:57* »
Itoje will get a rocket rather than be dropped. He's the best available lock, so that makes sense. Farrell is captain, he's not getting dropped. I think we'll see Smith-Farrell again - Smith played pretty well - or at worst Farrell with Lawrence at 12.

Curry and Earl might swap around. Youngs might get dropped from the bench.

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never sleep

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 10:03* »
I'm not sure much needs to be done with the starting 15.

Basically, they just needed to play better than they did on Saturday.
E.g. Itoje needs to give away fewer penalties.
JVP needs to serve up quicker ball from the ruck (as he is capable of doing).
Farrell needs to make more tackles.

I do agree with you about Earl though. I would bring him into the starting 15 at #7.

It was really our defence that lost us the game. But, another week of training should help to sort that out.
I think that we need some stability.

But, I would make changes to the bench.
E.g. Mako looked off the pace (putting it politely).



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T-Bone

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 10:51* »
I don't think Borthwick will make any changes, unless due to injuries. I think he should, but can't see it happening. Not sure any coach would make significant changes after one game in charge. The "optics" (hate that expression) wouldn't be great.

Youngs and Mako just shouldn't be anywhere near the squad anymore, and he should choose a 10 and then play a proper centre at 12, but not going to happen vs Italy.

Quite a few players need to put in a much better performance. Steward, OHC, Marchant, Farrell, JVP, Dombrandt, Curry, Itoje. And Walker too - he did nothing!

Yareet

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 13:18* »
Personally I would see the team I have picked as a solid team for the tournament, rather than a "see how it goes" type thing, as if SB is all about picking on form, then really the players I've dropped shouldn't be there.

If I was to pick changes more realistic, I would say the two most important ones would be Ribbans for Itoje and Tuilagi/Lawrence for Farrell, with the 2 sarries on the bench.

Again, I'm afraid I disagree. Changing 1/3 from the 23 is fine ... if it works.

Whilst it may have been your intention to have a core of the team for the tournament, there are no guarantees your 23 would have done any better on Saturday. I'm pretty sure SB was picking the team he thought was best suited to do the job he wanted them to do.

And many of that 23 were picked on league form. One game and they're dropped?

On Itoje, I don't personally see him and Ribbans as comparable. IMO Ribbans is cover for Chessum in the big lump mould. Somebody like Isiekwe would replace Itoje.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Smith-Farrell-Manu/Lawrence. When Farrell has worked at 12 (outside with Ford for England or Sexton for the Lions) it's been with a lump at 13.

Mandator

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 16:28* »
When is Ford expected back playing for Sale?

T-Bone

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #9 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 16:37* »
When is Ford expected back playing for Sale?

He played for them in a prem cup game at the weekend. no idea how he did

RodneyRegis

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #10 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 17:03* »
Whilst Saturday saw an improved England performance from ones in 2022, it was still the same result we have come to expect.

With changes almost certain (if SB has any sense) to be made, what would your team be for Italy, who will be a very tough game. If we even approach this as we might have a few years ago as some game to "rest" players or try things out, we are in for another familiar outcome considering how well they played yesterday.

1. Genge (c)
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Chessum
5. Ribbans
6. Ludlam
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt

9. Mitchell
10. Smith
11. Murley
12. Tuilagi
13. Marchant
14. Malins
15. Steward

16. Rodd
17. Walker
18. Cole
19. Itoje
20. Willis
21. JVP
22. Farrell
23. Watson

Hard to call with dropping Lawrence, who I would be happy at 12, however I'm not 100% how much he has played there.


I think this selection gives us better ruck speed, which will be important. Scotland dominated us there, and I feel Mitchell would be a better pick as JVP in my view was fairly slow at the base. I'd be happy to swap Earl for Willis but Willis can cover back row/8 from bench.

I'd have Lawrence over Tuilagi, who is an absolute myth.

and although Kyle was much better, the scrum was poor so I'd bring in cole.

But otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree.

Yareet

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 17:33* »
He played for them in a prem cup game at the weekend. no idea how he did

Had 40 minutes I believe and by all accounts was … rusty.

Harleys Evil Step Mum

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 19:21* »
NO Murley in the squad, Arundell back after one game for LI....utter madness!!!

JammyGit

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 20:07* »
Is it, though? Arundell looks like he could be a generational talent and would've been ahead of Murley previously if fit.

NevsLeftBoot

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Re: OT: Your England XV vs Italy?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 06-Feb-2023, 20:12* »
Marler
Walker
Sinckler
Hammond
Lamb
Lawday
Evans
Dombrant

DC
Smith
Murley
Anyanwu
Marchant
Malins
Steward
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