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Author Topic: Premiership Finances - Quins losses - Guardian special report  (Read 1189 times)

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Gone

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Way too much here to post the full text but interesting stuff -- here are the links:

Headline:

- Exeter only club in profit
- Clubs say they need to work together
- Quins recorded the second biggest losses at 6.6m
- Quins wage bill second highest in Premiership (for those who doubted we were at the salary cap)
- Quins have second highest turnover (which is good)
- Quins increased loan from parent company to 37m (not so good)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/28/premiership-rugby-clubs-join-forces

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/28/premiership-clubs-finances-sustainability

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/28/premiership-finances-the-full-club-by-club-breakdown-and-verdict
« Last Edit: Tuesday 28-Aug-2018, 12:53* by Blucherquin »

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Gone

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Here's the Quins details in full:

Harlequins

Turnover: 20.7m (2nd highest in Prem)
Owed to owner: £37m
Wages: £12.6m (2nd highest in Prem, 61% of turnover)
Loss (pre tax): £6.6m
Interest: £1m
Highest paid director (unnamed): £231k

Ownership: Ultimately owned by Union Mutual Pension Fund Ltd, registered in the tax haven of Bermuda. Reported to be owned by financiers Charles Jillings and Duncan Saville.

Accounts: Harlequin FC Holdings Ltd for the year to 30 June 2017.

Rugby income £6.5m
Central funding £6.1m
Commercial income £8m

The state they’re in

When Harlequins launched a mini-bond in 2016 in a bid to raise £7.5m, the stated aim was to become the best club in Europe. Nine defeats in the last 10 Premiership matches of the 2017-18 campaign suggest that day is a long way off and despite being one of the best supported clubs in the league, Quins are mired in debt. Mosaic Limited, which is based offshore and is reported to be owned by former chairman Charles Jillings and financier Duncan Saville, is owed £37m by the four companies set up by Harlequins. The bulk is interest free and the club’s auditors noted Mosaic was committed to financially supporting the club until at least the end of December, but last year’s loss of £6.6m showed that self-sustainability is some way off. Their turnover was second behind Wasps, but its wage bill of £12.6m was the second highest. The auditors flagged up the growing reliance on Mosaic in their report. Quins own the freehold to the Stoop and last year appointed Populous to design an improved ground with a capacity of up to 20,000 that would put them “at the forefront of the community”.

Gone

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Some interesting nuggets about Exeter...

"Ten per cent of the club’s income was generated by Sandy Park on non-match days, an asset that is the difference between profit and loss."

And their wage bill is £9.6m, the 9th highest and only 56% of turnover.

Sarries also starting to make money from their ground (more than £5m last year), but clearly still have massive (£47m) debt to Wray.
« Last Edit: Tuesday 28-Aug-2018, 13:01* by Blucherquin »

RodneyRegis

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the interesting thing for me is the salary level.

The salary cap is £7m + 2 marquee players - and any injury cover etc.

So let's say £8m on players - so another £4m on coaching and admin staff? Seems incredible.

Fearless Fred

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I'm not surprised our wage bill is second highest, as I assume that covers not just the squad & coaches, but all the backroom staff/office staff etc. and hence London salaries for them will be a lot higher than their equivalents in, say, Newcastle.


honkytonk

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So maybe it will get worse while the redevelopment happens but then we hope to start making some cash from the new wonder Stoop??

Ollyhoo

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Yes - good point as to whether the wages bill includes the office and support staff. I was chatting to one of the Exeter backroom staff 3 or 4 years ago and he was very surprised by the numbers of Quins office staff employed. He told me the numbers at Exeter were (at the time) very much lower - and that might go some way to explain why they carry less overhead on wages. The Quins office staff numbers do appear to have increased significantly over the last 5 or so years. As there can't be as much to do between May and September, perhaps many of them are on part time contracts? Who knows?

I've occasionally speculated at to what would happen if someone like Claude Littner (Lord Sugar's Rottweiler) was engaged to audit the Quins business plans and business structures. I recall he did that at Tottenham Hotspur!!

RodneyRegis

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I'm not surprised our wage bill is second highest, as I assume that covers not just the squad & coaches, but all the backroom staff/office staff etc. and hence London salaries for them will be a lot higher than their equivalents in, say, Newcastle.



It always astounds me that people think that admin staff in greater London get paid so much more than those outside. We're not based in the Square Mile.

Gone

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I'm not surprised our wage bill is second highest, as I assume that covers not just the squad & coaches, but all the backroom staff/office staff etc. and hence London salaries for them will be a lot higher than their equivalents in, say, Newcastle.

Except it’s higher than Sarries and Wasps are higher than us - Coventry hardly has London wages....

Suggests a large staff certainly.

Just from personal knowledge there are plenty of sports orgs and lots of not particularly big charities that pay far more for communications staff than they’re paid at Quins - certainly not stellar salaries.

RodneyRegis

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Yes, but are they losing money hand over fist?

A222Quin

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The figures are somewhat worrying across the league to be honest. There needs to be a realisation from the clubs and also the players that the level of salary costs is just not sustainable in the longer term. The size of our backroom staff is something that is interesting, it would appear that we've substantially increased this over the last few years - be interested to know why.

As a side note - I can't stand this "we want to be the best club in Europe". It's utterly meaningless without even the slightest detail of how we're going to as to how the club go about achieving it. I'd rather we didn't make these proclamations and focused on just getting better at being a rugby club.

Gone

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Yes, but are they losing money hand over fist?

Rodney we're arguing the same thing here. I'm saying we don't pay our back room staff large salaries hence wondering how we're spending an estimated 3-4 million on wages not related to the playing side.

RodneyRegis

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So we are. Apols.

Guildford Quin

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As the report is based upon Accounts @30/6/17 presumably it doesn't include any payments made as a result of our changes of coaching staff ? Compensation to the RFU for PG's services and any termination payments made could make next years Accounts even worse reading !

A222Quin

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In addition, I'm interested to know what the scale of the club's outlay is on items other than wages.

 

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