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Author Topic: Robbo - past it or still got it?  (Read 1725 times)

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Brown Bottle

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #15 on: Monday 04-Feb-2019, 18:40* »
Do you manage to get over from the USA for many games?

Gotten? Good old English word. Glad it's not been completely forgotten.
« Last Edit: Monday 04-Feb-2019, 18:43* by Brown Bottle »
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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #16 on: Monday 04-Feb-2019, 18:54* »
My post wasn't necessarily intended to read as "drop Robshaw, never play him again". I guess I just feel that now is the time to really let the Cliffords, Chis-es (Chisii?) and Dombrandts go for it. And they have done this season - but in large part because Robbo's been injured. My worry is that we'll now see him come back in on reputation alone - he should have to fight for his place but in reality I don't think he'll have to, as is the way with these big-name players...

Same at 9 - I was a bit confused when we let Waters go out on loan. He's now at the age where we should be trusting him to at least come off the bench regularly. Certainly over Dave Lewis - if anyone, then Lewis should have gone out on loan instead.

I do think there is a teeny tiny bit of nostalgia-drunk thinking going on on this thread but I've been wrong before. To me it seems that Robshaw objectively isn't as effective as the player he was when he won player of the season and it's not just a yard of pace he's lost. As someone mentioned above, he was never the quickest anyway so any pace lost on top of that and you're going to be less effective - that's just basic logic. He genuinely looks knackered from the very start of games - that wasn't the case 5/6 years ago. I totally agree with what many above have said about Robbo's rugby brain but there is a point where the body can't do what the brain's asking of it quite as much as it used to. I still see all the desire and effort and never-say-die attitude that he's always had, but the same rewards for all that hard work just aren't forthcoming from what I can see.

In the process of forcing myself to separate how much I love the guy and what he's done for Quins from the player he is now I do unfortunately now think we're better off with Clifford/Dombrandt on the flanks most of the time. And with potential new signings in the back row I do wonder how much game time a player like Robshaw should and will get with all that competition. Assuming just one of someone like Kwagga Smith or Will Evans do join, do you still select Robshaw to start 4 times out of 5? I don't know the answer. I guess from a Quins fan's perspective, more competition for places can only be good news - I just don't know how sustainable it is if you continue to pick an old, determined workhorse over an athletically-superior young gun most of the time.

The caveat to all of this, of course, is that my concerns are based on a couple of seasons of pre-injury performance and much of that was during JK's reign of horror - maybe I'm just being unfair. Obviously I'm going to get right behind him if and when he appears in the next game and for the rest of the season but just wondered where everyone else thought he was at. In my mind he, Brownie and Care are in the twilight of their careers and it's critical we start to let others take up the mantle.

Everyone’s a Quinner

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 04:06* »
Still think he has it. Just gets injured more often these days so not sure for how many seasons longer. But at the moment still just about has it for me

PhilQuin2

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 09:29* »
Quote
Can't remember -> Mike Brown -> Ross Chisholm

 - Jim Staples?

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 09:34* »
It was Gavin Duffy.
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RodneyRegis

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 10:23* »
I reckon this is the first time robshaw has been written off during an injury.


deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 10:50* »
My post wasn't necessarily intended to read as "drop Robshaw, never play him again". I guess I just feel that now is the time to really let the Cliffords, Chis-es (Chisii?) and Dombrandts go for it. And they have done this season - but in large part because Robbo's been injured. My worry is that we'll now see him come back in on reputation alone - he should have to fight for his place but in reality I don't think he'll have to, as is the way with these big-name players...

Same at 9 - I was a bit confused when we let Waters go out on loan. He's now at the age where we should be trusting him to at least come off the bench regularly. Certainly over Dave Lewis - if anyone, then Lewis should have gone out on loan instead.

I do think there is a teeny tiny bit of nostalgia-drunk thinking going on on this thread but I've been wrong before. To me it seems that Robshaw objectively isn't as effective as the player he was when he won player of the season and it's not just a yard of pace he's lost. As someone mentioned above, he was never the quickest anyway so any pace lost on top of that and you're going to be less effective - that's just basic logic. He genuinely looks knackered from the very start of games - that wasn't the case 5/6 years ago. I totally agree with what many above have said about Robbo's rugby brain but there is a point where the body can't do what the brain's asking of it quite as much as it used to. I still see all the desire and effort and never-say-die attitude that he's always had, but the same rewards for all that hard work just aren't forthcoming from what I can see.

In the process of forcing myself to separate how much I love the guy and what he's done for Quins from the player he is now I do unfortunately now think we're better off with Clifford/Dombrandt on the flanks most of the time. And with potential new signings in the back row I do wonder how much game time a player like Robshaw should and will get with all that competition. Assuming just one of someone like Kwagga Smith or Will Evans do join, do you still select Robshaw to start 4 times out of 5? I don't know the answer. I guess from a Quins fan's perspective, more competition for places can only be good news - I just don't know how sustainable it is if you continue to pick an old, determined workhorse over an athletically-superior young gun most of the time.

The caveat to all of this, of course, is that my concerns are based on a couple of seasons of pre-injury performance and much of that was during JK's reign of horror - maybe I'm just being unfair. Obviously I'm going to get right behind him if and when he appears in the next game and for the rest of the season but just wondered where everyone else thought he was at. In my mind he, Brownie and Care are in the twilight of their careers and it's critical we start to let others take up the mantle.

Well I'm pretty sure that Gussy will show no favour if you are right.

Gone

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 14:31* »
I reckon this is the first time robshaw has been written off during an injury.

Which is literally what hasn't happened.
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Quinky

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 14:46* »
I reckon this is the first time robshaw has been written off during an injury.



I doubt Robshaw has ever been written off by anyone who follows Quins. Fans of other teams write him off on a bizarrely regular basis though.

Everyone’s a Quinner

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:02* »
Hang on, how is developing players like Wallace, Clifford and the Chisholms not planning for the future? The club has been very unlucky in that all four of them have had extended periods out with serious injury, but the very fact that we can talk seriously about whether Robshaw is first choice any more tells us that they've done a good job in building a pipeline of players.

It's a similar story in most places. In the time I've been supporting Quins we've developed at least one and often two generations of players:
Ceri Jones -> Joe Marler - and would have had Seb Adeniran-Olule but for his unfortunate death
Tani Fuga -> Rob Buchanan -> Max Crumpton (again, Buchanan has been injured but you can't legislate for that)
Mike Ross -> James Johnston -> Kyle Sinckler / Will Collier
Ollie Kohn/George Robson -> Merrick / Matthews and others -> South / Lamb - the middle generation didn't work out and we passed on Launchbury, but this is probably one of the areas that hasn't worked
Andre Vos/Will Skinner -> Chris Robshaw / Luke Wallace -> Jack Clifford / James Chisholm
Nick Easter -> Tom Guest -> Alex Dombrandt (must admit, I never thought I'd see another player like Easter, but Dombrandt is like a Frankenstinian combination of the best bits of Easter and Guest if we can develop him properly)

Andy Gomarsall -> Danny Care -> Sam Stuart (derailed badly by injury)  -> Mulchrone / Saunders / Waters
Adrian Jarvis -> Nick Evans -> [numerous attempts that didn't work out] -> Marcus Smith / James Lang
JTH -> ?? the other area where we've failed to find a replacement
Gonzalo Tiesi -> George Lowe (who should still be playing barring that horrendous tackle) -> Joe Marchant
Ugo Monye / Simon Keogh -> Tom Williams, Sam Smith -> Charlie Walker -> Cadan Murley
Can't remember -> Mike Brown -> Ross Chisholm

I've tried to focus on the academy graduates. Not all of them have worked out, and not all of them are fully baked yet - but at the same time our attrition rate has been horrible. JTH and Lowe should by rights still be our centre pairing. Seb should have been coming through. Clifford and Chisholm should have been taking some of the strain off Robshaw a lot earlier.

What do you think the Academy staff do all day? It's all about succession planning. Poorfour Jr is in the first year of a different academy's development programme (because weird catchment areas) and they are watching 2-300 boys in each year group in the knowledge that 1 or 2 of them will make it to Premiership level. It's not an exact science, and it's not easy, but a lot of time and effort goes into it.

Just out of interest, who was it who tackled George Lowe? I remember it was horrendous for sure but can’t remember who? Was it against Saracens again and was he Scottish? For some reason that’s all my mind can gather

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #25 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:06* »
Just out of interest, who was it who tackled George Lowe? I remember it was horrendous for sure but can’t remember who? Was it against Saracens again and was he Scottish? For some reason that’s all my mind can gather

So that would be either Duncan Taylor or Sean Maitland?

Everyone’s a Quinner

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:17* »
So that would be either Duncan Taylor or Sean Maitland?

I’m not sure and I could be completely wrong but that’s all I have in my head. Do you remember?

RodneyRegis

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #27 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:40* »
Which is literally what hasn't happened.

A ringing endorsement....


He just doesn't have the pace or intensity of those guys any more. His engine still tends to see him through 80 mins time after time but I feel like I've also seen him start to have less and less influence on the game.

RodneyRegis

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #28 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:42* »
I’m not sure and I could be completely wrong but that’s all I have in my head. Do you remember?
it was Rhys Gill.
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Quinky

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Re: Robbo - past it or still got it?
« Reply #29 on: Tuesday 05-Feb-2019, 15:51* »
A ringing endorsement....


He just doesn't have the pace or intensity of those guys any more. His engine still tends to see him through 80 mins time after time but I feel like I've also seen him start to have less and less influence on the game.

He's had one game back after surgery. Some people suggest he was our best player in that game.

Prior to this layoff, he was in the running for MOTM most weeks. His game was never based on pace or intensity; it was about doing his job to a supremely high standard, and not flagging. Both traits remain.

 

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