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Author Topic: Smith - not ready?  (Read 2609 times)

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JammyGit

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #45 on: Wednesday 29-Aug-2018, 00:09* »
I wonder.  How many Premiership players are not Premiership quality?

Probably a few. Teams will have players who aren't good enough - in the hope that they'll become good enough, or because they were duff signings, or because they've stopped being good enough and can't just be fired.

Dave Lewis has been bad for years so it's baffling that he's still being signed by Premiership teams. In my opinion I have yet to see Lang deliver a performance for us that suggested he was at the right level. It's not all that complicated but people are desperate for a fight before the season starts I suppose.

poorfour

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #46 on: Wednesday 29-Aug-2018, 00:38* »
In my opinion I have yet to see Lang deliver a performance for us that suggested he was at the right level. It's not all that complicated but people are desperate for a fight before the season starts I suppose.

And yet in Gregor Townsend's opinion, Lang is already international quality (and in a position where Scotland aren't short of options). That complicates things a bit, because it's hard for us to decide whether your judgement is better than that of a Scottish International, Test Lion, Club and International Head Coach.
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JammyGit

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #47 on: Wednesday 29-Aug-2018, 06:49* »
I've been really really clear that this is just my opinion based on his Quins performances and repeatedly expressed my surprise at his callup. But never mind eh.

Quinky

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #48 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:01* »
Does yesterday's performance change anyone's opinion on Smith? I haven't seen the game yet (waiting for it to be online) but it sounds like he did well.

To add my tuppence worth: I think Smith is ready to be our starting 10, but also believe that we need to manage game time. I also believe Lang to be a Prem quality player, at centre for sure, and possibly at 10. Cat is definitely Prem quality. Swiel is possibly good enough, if he gets a run of starts. The comment that he can't decide his best position is an odd one; I doubt he gets to choose where he's picked, it's oddly to his detriment that he has the ability to play as a utility back. It didn't help Frans Steyn much either.

GillQuin

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #49 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:04* »
Smith played well and was given MOM. I think Tapps helped Smith enormously and although Smith scored 26 points, I would have made Tapps MOM or possibly Symons.

Fearless Fred

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #50 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:33* »
I agree with Quinky. All four of our possible 10s, given a run of games, is a suitable starting Premiership 10, and all are capable to provide something off the bench. Smith is the most precocious, natural talent. Lag is a steady 10/12 who can steer a hard slog game. The Cat has plenty of experience in France and in SA & (when we get to see him for a few games on the trot!) I'm sure will do a decent job for us. After all, he did okay against us a couple of seasons ago for Montpellier! As for Swiel, I think he suffered in not getting enough gametime when he was sat behind NEv. We relied too much in NEv's class without allowing any of his backups a chance to cement a place as his successor.

If anything, that was one of the major failures in both Conor and JKs reigns: A few key personnel were over-played without allowing their understudies a chance to get decent time as a starter. Minty, NEv, Goatman, even Browny were/are deemed too important to rest in any game where they are fit, so their backups/alternatives get cameos at best, so they either get frustrated & move on, or their salary expectations on contract renewal/extension are above what the club is willing to pay or someone who's been a minor player in the squad.

I hope that PG and BM can bring more of a balance to the team & squad over the next few years where players can swap in & out of the matchday 23 as required by injury/opposition/conditions so we can play to our strengths. THAT to my mind is how to build a successful squad long-term.

Monte

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #51 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:33* »
Is this being ironic? I am concerned about Catrakalis who I presume is a marquee player and apart from anything else costing us a fortune?

Monte

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #52 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:35* »
Who is Tapps? gillquin

GillQuin

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #53 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 13:50* »
Sorry.  Tapuai.  He was brilliant.


poorfour

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #54 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 15:14* »
Is this being ironic? I am concerned about Catrakalis who I presume is a marquee player and apart from anything else costing us a fortune?

There are several other candidates to be marquee players - Horwill, for one. And we have several home grown players we could make marquee - including Sinckler (England starter, Test Lion and a tighthead) and Smith himself (if rumours of his salary are to be believed).

Realistically, Quins have 3 fly halves of similar quality but different styles and a reasonable backup in Swiel. Given our injury record over the last few seasons and the need to manage game time for all three (Smith and Lang for their relative youth, Cat to ensure he comes back from injury and can get match fit without picking up another one), that’s a sensible depth to have. I have no doubt that we will see plenty of Cat and Smith at 10, with Lang probably covering 10 and 12.

As for Man of the Match yesterday, it was Tapuai as long as we apply the standard rider of “excluding Robshaw”. Our newly restored captain was noticeably ubiquitous even by his usual standards, and seemed to be enjoying his rugby much more than of late.

Quin635

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #55 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 15:26* »
Smith the guy who kicked the 3rd highest amount of points in the premiership isn't ready for prem rugby, Then you take into account that the only two people who got more points than him were Ford and Farrell who are two international quality fly halfs. Cipriani has off days would you say he isn't premiership quality

AJQuin

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #56 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 16:19* »
I think there’s a big difference between being prem quality and ready to be our No1 No10. Those two statements can be mutually exclusive.

I was/am a supporter who says Smith is 100% ready (more in the match report when it goes up) but he certainly showed a lot more control over the game yesterday than he did last year. His kicking was hugely improved but I want to see that consistency over the next few games before I’m won over on that point.

Based on what I witnessed yesterday though I feel much happier seeing Smith start more regularly this year although I still feel we need to manage his work load to protect him and the club.

DOK

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #57 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 16:24* »
Last year playing as part of a team beaten before it got on the pitch, uninterested or unable to perform, he looked bad. Well, who wouldn't?

Quinky

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #58 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 17:07* »

I was/am a supporter who says Smith is 100% ready (more in the match report when it goes up) but he certainly showed a lot more control over the game yesterday than he did last year. His kicking was hugely improved but I want to see that consistency over the next few games before I’m won over on that point.


I wonder how much of this is down to NEv's influence, and how much is just him evolving as a player?

poorfour

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Re: Smith - not ready?
« Reply #59 on: Sunday 02-Sep-2018, 19:25* »
Both/and. Players develop by learning from those around them, and Smith will undoubtedly have been learning from NEv and all the other experiences that have been open to him.

From talking to players at the pre-season dinner, it sounds like a lot of the problems last year were that the injury list was so long that they were having to put players out not fully fit and hope that they would last until someone else was fit enough to replace them. Under those circumstances, with large numbers of players never able to get properly match fit, it’s hardly surprising we couldn’t perform.

In that context, I think accusing the players of being uninterested is unhelpful and unnecessarily pejorative. We’ve known enough of these players for long enough to know that that’s not what they’re like.
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