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Author Topic: Swing Low is "racist"  (Read 4526 times)

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Only Joe Quin

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #210 on: Monday 06-Jul-2020, 06:44* »
And the other way. They don't all think the same.
I don’t understand this. The evidence is overwhelming that BAME groups in the UK are disadvantaged in many ways on the basis of race. What “they” think doesn’t change this.
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Quinky

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #211 on: Monday 06-Jul-2020, 15:15* »
I don’t understand this. The evidence is overwhelming that BAME groups in the UK are disadvantaged in many ways on the basis of race. What “they” think doesn’t change this.

It's not overwhelming. "Evidence" is interpreted to suit agendas. Statistics are cherrypicked and somewhat tenuous conclusions are drawn to suit a narrative.

I could give you statistics that "prove" white people are disadvantaged, but somehow I think your mind is already made up to dismiss them.
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Only Joe Quin

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #212 on: Monday 06-Jul-2020, 16:46* »
It's not overwhelming. "Evidence" is interpreted to suit agendas. Statistics are cherrypicked and somewhat tenuous conclusions are drawn to suit a narrative.

I don’t know about “evidence” but the evidence really is overwhelming. There have been multiple reviews and studies arriving at that conclusion.
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Quinky

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #213 on: Monday 06-Jul-2020, 23:24* »
I don’t know about “evidence” but the evidence really is overwhelming. There have been multiple reviews and studies arriving at that conclusion.

The reality is not overwhelming. Some people of all hues are disadvantaged. Many aren't.
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Rocker

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #214 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 00:32* »
Just look at the evidence! If this country was horribly racist why do we have British Asians in 2 of the top offices of state?
Why are people of South Asian and South East Asian earning more and advancing further than "white british" people if this is a horribly racist country?
I had an Indian friend who joined the met police and he said the only people that he received racist abuse from were Afro Caribbean youths. Calling him a sellout and other more unpleasant things. Just like the Guariadan and their disgraceful cartoon of the home secretary!
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Brown Bottle

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #215 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 09:44* »
Just look at the evidence! If this country was horribly racist ...

Is a bit racist OK, then? What level of racism is acceptable before it becomes "horrible"?
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Quinky

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #216 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 10:22* »
Is a bit racist OK, then? What level of racism is acceptable before it becomes "horrible"?

How racist is it now?

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #217 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 10:32* »
'Do not ban Swing Low, Sweet Chariot,' plead South African singers looking to combat racism
Bianca Solomons and Maritza Truter have recorded a new version in response to racism issues raised by killing of George Floyd

By
Gavin Mairs,
 CHIEF RUGBY UNION CORRESPONDENT
7 July 2020 • 2:24pm


The Rugby Football Union has been urged not to ban the swinging of the “Swing Low, Sweet Chariot” at Twickenham by a South African singing duo who are recording a new version of the song to combat racism.

The RFU is currently conducting a review of the use of the song, as well as the use of branding, signage and merchandising featuring its lyrics, after concerns were raised of its slavery origins.

The review, which will be carried out by the RFU’s executive committee, will also involve input from current and former black England players, as well as across both the professional and community departments of the governing body.

Cape Town-based duo Bianca Solomons and Maritza Truter, who have just finished recording a new version of the song to be released next week in response to the racism issues raised by the killing of George Floyd, say any move to ban the song would send the wrong message.


Solomons, a 17-year-old black singer who was adopted by a white woman when she was just four months old, and suffered racial abuse during her childhood, insist that England supporters instead need to be educated about the song and that it should be promulgated as a means of uniting, not dividing people.

“Swing Low, Sweet Chariot is a gospel song,” said Solomons, who has been hailed in South Africa as the best teenage classical singer since Charlotte Church.

“Using this song is a very good opportunity to show people that colour doesn’t matter. Everybody has the same voice. They might not be the same person, they might not have the same personality, you can be a better person.

“I want to inspire people who have come from a very tough background. I was adopted by Ellen, who is white, from the age of four months. I was bullied growing up by every race. I want to be a voice for people who have had a tough time and they can become something if you work for it.

“It is so hard to see black versus white and people being killed. But it still goes on and I want to make a difference with this song.”


That Truter, who has been Solomons’ singing coach for the last five years, is from an Afrikaner background only serves to underscore the symbolism.

“We are trying to do something about racism,” said Truter, who has several hit songs in South Africa. “The England supporters have not been educated about what the song is about really. I don’t want to step on anyone's toes. But the song comes from the black community.

“Bianca is a black girl and I am a white girl and it gives out a positive message about being together instead of being apart. It doesn’t matter what colour your skin is, everyone’s voices sound the same.

“I have done a lot of research into the song and what I have come across is that it is very poignant for the black community. It is a funeral song where they are lifting someone up into the heavens and I hope that comes across.

“We are tearing it down to a very basic song. When Wallis Willis wrote the song, they didn’t have instruments so I wanted to stay true to it.”

Both Solomons and Truter, who were due to be on a choral tour to Manchester before the Covid-19 lockdown, said they would be keen to perform the song at Twickenham in November if it would help educate England supporters about the song’s true meaning.

“I think to show everyone what the song is really about would make a big difference, for black communities everywhere, to show that England supporters are getting to know what the song is really about,” said Truter.

Solomons added: “It would be a brilliant idea just to show people what this song really means. It is about how you treat your people.”


Brown Bottle

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #218 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 10:35* »
Sorry, deadly, but that's a bit "on topic"!
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deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #219 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 10:36* »
RFU more focused on burying its problem with monitoring ethnicity rather than addressing it, says leading race equality think tank
Exclusive: The RFU does not monitor the number of players or coaches who identify as BAME across elite levels of men’s and women’s rugby

By
Fiona Tomas
7 July 2020 • 9:12pm

The Rugby Football Union is more focused on burying its problem with ethnicity monitoring instead of addressing it, according to one of the UK’s leading independent race equality think tanks.

Telegraph Sport can reveal the RFU does not monitor the number of players or coaches who identify as black, Asian or other ethnic minorities across elite levels of men’s and women’s rugby in England.

The organisation has also told Telegraph Sport it has “no plans in place” to start measuring BAME participation in the men’s Premiership, championship or in the Premier 15s, its top women’s competition, despite its recent commitment to improve diversity in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement.


When approached, the RFU acknowledged it needs to do more to achieve diversity and remains “determined to accelerate change.”

Last month, the RFU vowed to make representation on its council more diverse by ensuring at least 30 per cent of new council members are either women or those from black, Asian and minority ­ethnic communities.


That pledge came less than a week after the RFU council elected 11 new members, who were all white. Maggie Alphonsi, the 2014 Women’s Rugby World Cup winner and Telegraph columnist, is the only black person on the body’s 61-person council.

Dr Zubaida Haque, the interim director at the Runnymede Trust, the UK's leading independent race equality think tank, said: “It’s astonishing that the Rugby Football Union are not collecting and monitoring data of players, coaches, board members and other participants by ethnicity, given that data is the first step in identifying whether there are issues with participation, recruitment, retention and progression of black and ethnic minority people in the game.

“This is the entire reason that Theresa May set up the Government’s Race Disparity Unit in 2017 which collects and monitors data by ethnicity across all public sector areas.

“The complete lack of action on even collecting data by ethnicity makes you wonder whether the RFU is more focused on burying the problem rather than addressing it.”


More than a third of the players in Eddie Jones’ 31-strong squad at last year’s World Cup were from BAME backgrounds. This, however, is not reflected in the community game, where data on the number of BAME players and coaches is non-existent.

It is also not mirrored in England women’s squad: of the 28 professional women’s XVs contracts the RFU currently funds, just two are BAME.

The only recent BAME data the RFU could share with Telegraph Sport was from its inclusivity programme, Project Rugby, which it runs in partnership with Gallagher to increase participation from traditionally underrepresented groups.

In May last year, the initiative reached the landmark of introducing 25,000 players to the sport since its launch in 2017.

Of those, just 13 per cent were from BAME backgrounds, a further 19 per cent accounted for people with disabilities and 70 per cent were from low socioeconomic groups.

Arun Kang, the chief executive of Sporting Equals, the UK’s leading charity for racial equality and diversity in sport, said the RFU’s apathy in collating BAME data is reflective of why the charity launched its Race Equality Charter last year.

This encourages governing bodies to capture baseline ethnicity data and make solid commitments to tackling underrepresentation at all levels while celebrating positive role models and stories within BAME communities.

“Many organisations have an issue with capturing, monitoring and reflecting on BAME inclusion,” affirmed Kang.

“This lack of insight further elongates the issues surrounding inclusivity of BAME communities within the sport and physical activity sector.”

He added: “We have seen many national governing bodies independently seek us out as they wish to be part of the change and recognise that seeking assistance from BAME-led organisations is the best way to start.

“We would encourage the whole sports sector to take a hard look at their own internal practices and reflect on if they too could benefit from such an approach to embrace change and equality."


Quanks

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #220 on: Wednesday 08-Jul-2020, 23:48* »
So now Maro Itoje has come out and said Swing Low makes him feel uncomfortable https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/30/swing-low-sweet-chariot-makes-me-feel-uncomfortable-englands-maro-itoje.

How do people justify singing this now? A BAME member of the team is saying this song makes them uncomfortable. If you sing it, you are actively choosing to not support at least this member of the team. If that’s what you choose then that’s up to you.

Brown Bottle

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #221 on: Thursday 09-Jul-2020, 00:25* »
So now Maro Itoje has come out and said Swing Low makes him feel uncomfortable https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/30/swing-low-sweet-chariot-makes-me-feel-uncomfortable-englands-maro-itoje.

How do people justify singing this now? A BAME member of the team is saying this song makes them uncomfortable. If you sing it, you are actively choosing to not support at least this member of the team. If that’s what you choose then that’s up to you.

But Maro is not a middle-aged, middle-class white man. How can he possibly be in a position to judge what is offensive?
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Quinky

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #222 on: Thursday 09-Jul-2020, 08:55* »
So now Maro Itoje has come out and said Swing Low makes him feel uncomfortable https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jun/30/swing-low-sweet-chariot-makes-me-feel-uncomfortable-englands-maro-itoje.

How do people justify singing this now? A BAME member of the team is saying this song makes them uncomfortable. If you sing it, you are actively choosing to not support at least this member of the team. If that’s what you choose then that’s up to you.

What if someone - anyone - finds any other song uncomfortable? Do you ban that too?

Quanks

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #223 on: Thursday 09-Jul-2020, 09:16* »
What if someone - anyone - finds any other song uncomfortable? Do you ban that too?

For the thousandth time, there is not a ban. In the post you've quoted I said that you can still choose to sing the song. Maro is likewise quoted in the article:
“I am not too sure if banning works because you can’t regulate what comes out of people’s mouths but I think people should be educated about the background of the song and it will be down to any individual if they want to sing it or not.”

This is about educating people and them making their own choice. With a member of the team saying it makes them uncomfortable, I do not see how choosing to sing the song can be seen as supporting the team, but that is each person's choice. The fact we're 15 pages into this thread and the difference between a ban and what's actually happening is still not understood is mind blowing to me.

Turning to your question, yes if someone tells me something I'm doing is making them uncomfortable I try and not do it - don't you? I would extend this to any song they tell me makes them uncomfortable.
« Last Edit: Thursday 09-Jul-2020, 09:24* by Quanks »
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JammyGit

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Re: Swing Low is "racist"
« Reply #224 on: Thursday 09-Jul-2020, 09:19* »
If they had good reason, would it be so terrible to consider whether singing the song was still a good idea?

The cricket's back. Yesterday, Sky broadcast a powerful piece by Michael Holding and Ebony Rainford-Brent on racism, and followed up with giving Michael Holding time to talk live. Sky deserve huge credit for giving two prominent black former players space to speak honestly about their experience, and it was incredibly moving.

Here is the piece:

and here is Holding's followup:

Definitely worth watching, guys.
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