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Author Topic: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad  (Read 1659 times)

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Quinten Poulsen

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #60 on: Tuesday 20-Aug-2019, 23:11* »
Well it's funny that a company as right-on as the BBC upped her pay by 45k after she complained (as well as giving her back pay for something like the previous 5 years) and yet she still wasn't then earning as much as Sopel. Surely you realise that in these positions there is an element of 'pull' (I hasten to say celebrity!) that means that they don't and won't all earn the same?

Re: the BBC gender pay gap - as you seem to be interpreting as such, it is still there; there is barely any difference in their top 10 earners, ie. 7 men and 3 women. Plus this gender pay gap works both ways, as I've mentioned before - there are females earning more than males for what you would call similar jobs.

If the BBC are breaking any wage laws then I'm sure they'll be taken to court by the people they're discriminating against.

Rocker

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #61 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 09:21* »
Late to the party but I'm not a fan of labels. Everyone these days has to have one, like we need to be pigeon holed in a rich box on a census form. I'm happy if more people from any and all walks of life want to play rugby. Celebrating the amount of "Diversity" as itself being a good thing is a path to a place of quotas. Statist nonsense.

Quinky

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #62 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 09:37* »
Casual observers would think you’re just stupid but we know that can’t be true.

So help me out and prove the opposite to be the case by stopping evading an easy question.

It’s very clear I said neither unless you can’t English. So to be clear, if you raise the smokescreen point again, we’ll all assume you’re too stupid to read.

So, explain to me, slowly and clearly:

1) why are you so angry that Ugo thinks it’s good if more black and Asian people play rugbt

2) which changes that have stopped discrimination (your word, your point, not mine) would you like to undo?

You’be dig yourself into this embarrassing rabbit hole - now dig yourself out or we’ll all have to move on assuming you can’t read and aren’t able to put together a coherent argument.

Blucher, people may think you're a total ring piece, but I'm sure that's not true. Some may suggest you're doing your best to support the claim, but I'm sure that if you wanted to you could do a lot more.

Once again, I'll clarify. I'm not angry. I really dislike people bringing identity politics into sport, or any other walk of life. It's divisive.

Kierkegaard said (as I recall) "if you label me, you negate me" I'm sure you think he's an idiot, but try to consider that statement.

I didn’t raise the point about changes, in law specifically as you mentioned. Yes, you. You prattled about the famed "no blacks, no Irish" sign, like it's relevant in rugby today. It isn't. In my 50+ years of experience, I've never seen it relevant to rugby, from a playing perspective. You may have other experience, but so far you've totally dodged the question. So, time to put your c*ck on the block... Where are blacks and Irish blocked from rugby clubs? Or were you just being obtuse when you raised a totally irrelevant point? Well who'd have thought it...

Now, you and your undefined posse can think what you like about me. I really don't care. We've never met, and likely never will. My life is fine without you, and unlike you, I won't fret and panic when others perceive an imbalance to their desired quotas for whichever metric is flavour of the month.

Have a good life.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #63 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 09:59* »
I am definitely going to have all the empty phone boxes in Twickenham removed.

deadlyfrom5yardsout

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #64 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 10:04* »
Well it's funny that a company as right-on as the BBC upped her pay by 45k after she complained (as well as giving her back pay for something like the previous 5 years) and yet she still wasn't then earning as much as Sopel. Surely you realise that in these positions there is an element of 'pull' (I hasten to say celebrity!) that means that they don't and won't all earn the same?

Re: the BBC gender pay gap - as you seem to be interpreting as such, it is still there; there is barely any difference in their top 10 earners, ie. 7 men and 3 women. Plus this gender pay gap works both ways, as I've mentioned before - there are females earning more than males for what you would call similar jobs.

If the BBC are breaking any wage laws then I'm sure they'll be taken to court by the people they're discriminating against.

This is something I have never understood. How is one person's "pull" or "celebrity" actually measured? Is it their number of Twatter followers or just a stab in the dark (No, Quinky I'm not talking dirty...) based on personal opinion..?

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #65 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 10:41* »
This is something I have never understood. How is one person's "pull" or "celebrity" actually measured? Is it their number of Twatter followers or just a stab in the dark (No, Quinky I'm not talking dirty...) based on personal opinion..?

Think of presenters like football players - they operate in a market in much the same way. It's all perceived value really - but of course the broadcasters also bet on the thinking that their name sells. Just like Paul Pogba will sell more shirts than a lower league footballer, Louis Theroux will haul in more viewers for a documentary than a budding young thing that nobody knows (yet). And so Theroux's market value is higher.

Gone

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #66 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 11:03* »
Blucher, people may think you're a total ring piece, but I'm sure that's not true. Some may suggest you're doing your best to support the claim, but I'm sure that if you wanted to you could do a lot more.

Once again, I'll clarify. I'm not angry. I really dislike people bringing identity politics into sport, or any other walk of life. It's divisive.

Kierkegaard said (as I recall) "if you label me, you negate me" I'm sure you think he's an idiot, but try to consider that statement.

I didn’t raise the point about changes, in law specifically as you mentioned. Yes, you. You prattled about the famed "no blacks, no Irish" sign, like it's relevant in rugby today. It isn't. In my 50+ years of experience, I've never seen it relevant to rugby, from a playing perspective. You may have other experience, but so far you've totally dodged the question. So, time to put your c*ck on the block... Where are blacks and Irish blocked from rugby clubs? Or were you just being obtuse when you raised a totally irrelevant point? Well who'd have thought it...

Now, you and your undefined posse can think what you like about me. I really don't care. We've never met, and likely never will. My life is fine without you, and unlike you, I won't fret and panic when others perceive an imbalance to their desired quotas for whichever metric is flavour of the month.

Have a good life.

Nah you’re not getting off that easy.

You’ve totally avoided the question and the point yet again.

This is only time this is about discrimination and “quotas” when you claim it is. Where do any of the things raised by Ugo, Wade, Sink, the RFU or Quins mention those things?

Again - at no point have I claimed in this discussion that black and Irish people have been blocked from joining rugby clubs. You know I haven’t. Everyone else reading this knows you’re the only person who keeps pretending that’s what is written in the thread.

You were triggered by Ugo being pleased that there were more BAME players in the squad.

We were discussing access to the game.

The entire basis of the discussion we were having was about financial background and social class - not race.

You claimed repeatedly that there are no barriers to playing rugby and that people who aren’t playing rugby are just choosing not to play and aren’t interested.

One more attempt since you have contrinually avoided the question throughout,

Do you genuinely believe that rugby has mass appeal and has no issues with being played by a massively disproportionate amount of people who went to fee paying schools.

If your answer is yes - then why are Quins, the Premiership and the RFU funding large programmes to try to get more people from less affluent backgrounds into rugby.

And if you went to stop them - why are you happy with rugby being a sport in decline?

Quinky

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #67 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 11:26* »
Nah you’re not getting off that easy.

You’ve totally avoided the question and the point yet again.

This is only time this is about discrimination and “quotas” when you claim it is. Where do any of the things raised by Ugo, Wade, Sink, the RFU or Quins mention those things?

Again - at no point have I claimed in this discussion that black and Irish people have been blocked from joining rugby clubs. You know I haven’t. Everyone else reading this knows you’re the only person who keeps pretending that’s what is written in the thread.

You were triggered by Ugo being pleased that there were more BAME players in the squad.

We were discussing access to the game.

The entire basis of the discussion we were having was about financial background and social class - not race.

You claimed repeatedly that there are no barriers to playing rugby and that people who aren’t playing rugby are just choosing not to play and aren’t interested.

One more attempt since you have contrinually avoided the question throughout,

Do you genuinely believe that rugby has mass appeal and has no issues with being played by a massively disproportionate amount of people who went to fee paying schools.

If your answer is yes - then why are Quins, the Premiership and the RFU funding large programmes to try to get more people from less affluent backgrounds into rugby.

And if you went to stop them - why are you happy with rugby being a sport in decline?

Judging by the posts on here, the "we" that you previously referred to is actually "you". So, I'll go through your points one more time so that you can go and discuss this with your imaginary friends...

Yes, I mentioned "quotas". That's because any discussion isn't limited to the words used in the opening post, and discussions evolve. (Go look the word up, it's clearly something you haven't done).

Whenever a discussion about BAME (I loathe that expression) occurs, there is a supposition and a leaning towards "more" involvement from a particular societal segment. This of course implies that there is not "enough". So what is "enough"? Is there a figure? Or what one might calla "quota"? (Try referring back to South African rugby for a demonstration of how this works in the real world). Again, if we stick to the exact words used by individuals then it will be a pretty limited conversation.

Blacks and Irish? You brought that up. Since we're apparently talking about access to rugby, why did you bring it up? Perhaps you could answer instead of totally avoiding the question. But I doubt you will.

I wasn't triggered. That's reserved for people of whom I imagine you might be typical. I merely pointed out that I don't like identity politics.

Yes, we were dicussing access to the game. You still haven't shown me (or "us") any club that denies access to anyone. ANYONE.

The discussion started from a conversation about BAME (horrible expression). That comes under "race", more than "social class". The "B" is "Black" and the "ME is "Minority Ethnic". Go look it up.

I claim (see above) that no club denies anyone (ANYONE) from playing rugby. You have singularly failed to disprove this. Go ahead. I'm patient. You also haven't disproven that many people don't play rugby because... well, they just don't want to. It really isn't made up. Why don't people play table tennis? Or darts? Or Monopoly? Because they choose not to, and no amount of bleating by social justice warriors will ever change that.

I don't think rugby has "mass appeal" in the same way that football does; I believe that it should be played more in all schools, but my own school was a football school and didn't focus on rugby. The answer? A load of us went to the local rugby club. Ironically that included black and Irish kids, as well as Asian and Italian. You'd have loved it - we were all allowed in. Maybe they lost their sign.

I don't know why anyone invests in anything. I don't know why the Mayor of London hates bikini ads. I don't know why Lily Allen apologises on behalf of the country, and I don't know why Gillette appears to think all men are Neanderthal. But I do think they're often wrong, or misguided, or just trying to be "woke". (Look it up if you need to, which I doubt).

I can't stop "them" doing what they do, so I won't waste my energy. I don't know how rugby is measured as being "in decline", although I believe the popularity is cyclic and it's likely to be much more popular during and immediately after the RWC. Of course that's all relative.

So, assuming you're not immersed in the Guardian, or fighting to save some aspect of the planet, does that clarify things for you and your pretend gang? Or shall I explain in more simple terms? Perhaps in smaller words. Or with Lego.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #68 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 12:00* »
Lego please. We all want to see that.

Quinten Poulsen

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #69 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 12:37* »
Quote
Kierkegaard said (as I recall) "if you label me, you negate me"

Or was it Dick Van Patten.
Funny Funny x 1 View List

RodneyRegis

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #70 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 13:01* »
Ok mate. So the era of “no blacks, no Irish” signs was when we weren’t allowing “identity politics” to “sour” things was it?

Or was it when gay people were sent to prison for putting a fleshy nozzle into a bottom?

Or maybe when poilcemen told women who’d been punched around by their husbands not to make a fuss?

It would be great if you could define your terms a little more clearly so we know which area you feel has soured everything?

And just in terms of rugby - you’re making Ugo’s and my point exactly. You’re in favour of equality even though you don’t want to be.

The thing is, the “no preference” bit is exactly what we’re talking about. And rugby is played and watched almost exclusively by people whose background, wealth and education does make them not like everyone else.

And yes, I’m sure there are many individual examples of people who say they play rugby and aren’t of that type - but the statistics show that it is, by a large majority.

If we ever want the sport we love to be played by more people, watched by more people and everyone is afforded the same opportunities as you so fullsomly suggest - then people like Ugo absolutely have the right to raise it in the eloquent and non-divisional way he did.

You seem to be the only one on the thread who wants to keep no blacks no Irish in the discussion.

Brown Bottle

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Re: Ugo Celebrates Diverse World Cup squad
« Reply #71 on: Wednesday 21-Aug-2019, 14:16* »
You seem to be the only one on the thread who wants to keep no blacks no Irish in the discussion.

I didn't realise there were any. Are they allowed on this board?

 

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