ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Benquin on Friday 13-Dec-2019, 22:13*
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Strange bump - this is all from 2019, when we finished sixth... not a terrible prediction there Max!
Ah I didn't realise it was that long ago. I thought it was very unlike me to be wrong!
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Gustard is the clown that needs getting rid of - not sink ..
Agree re Gustard
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Strange bump - this is all from 2019, when we finished sixth... not a terrible prediction there Max!
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No problem targeting that. The problem is achieving it. Frankly I'll be surprised if we finish in the top six.
As I said I always thought we would win it!
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Who would have thought!
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:)
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Looking forward to see what they can do against Wasps away this weekend and Tigers at HQ.
That will be a better indication of where we are.
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Quins are being re-built and over the next season or two, I suggest we'll see quite a few senior departures, freeing up space under the cap. It is possible that Care, Brown, Robshaw and Sinckler will retire/leave. If (and I don't know whether it is realistic or not and neither do many on here that are not senior coaches in league teams) Gustard's new picks and his re-organisation take a few years, I'm ready to wait.
Finish top 6 has to be base aim - top 4 with a more consistent and performing team. Start to think about European challenges in several year's time as if the team cannot gain consistency (and get a bit of help with fewer injuries) then European rugby is beyond us. Concentrate on the league until then. (I'd also like to see the A side or whatever that is called now being something to be pushed as it represents the chance for up-coming juniors, new and returning players to play Gustard's way) with a young skipper that is a possible future club captain)
It took Baxter 4 or 5 (?) seasons to hit the heights in the Premiership and only now are they starting to make an waves in Europe. Patience required by us all as quick fixes - Bath and Tigers with their new coaching set don't guarantee any form. PG's year has been dominated by RWC absentees and injuries. If we'd beaten Ulster away, then I'm sure he'd have put out a better side with a view to a win, but another loss is likely against Clermont at home and Bath away, so better to blood some new faces to let them feel how different European rugby is.
Looking forward to see what they can do against Wasps away this weekend and Tigers at HQ.
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I'm not so sure about that.
No problem targeting that. The problem is achieving it. Frankly I'll be surprised if we finish in the top six.
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We're obviously targeting the league, and a top 4 finish
I'm not so sure about that.
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Point proven, utter disgrace! Tonight was awful, been a season ticket holder for 20 years and this is possibly the most depressing evening I have ever had at the stoop, obviously felt throughout the stadium as it was empty after 70 minutes
That cannot be true! Did you come to many home games towards the end of JK's tenure or the Exeter game right at the end of COS's?
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Been away from here for a while. Didn't realise things had got so toxic. Feels like we're back to JK days. Ho hum.
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We're obviously targeting the league, and a top 4 finish, which I'm more than ok with.
Yes, there were far too many areas where our skills were poor, and boy did they target Chisholm Snr.
The scrum throughout was very steady, and the lineout is improving very quickly.The Fijian lads are now becoming more prominent, and Murley,Laing and Lewies look like proper rugby players.
Having to replace 2 starters so early with HIA obviously disrupts things.
Personally, I enjoyed the evening. Good first half, Cooney and Stockdale were sublime, Ulster fans were brilliant,and the band gave a fine rendition of Tiger Feet.
Tickets for Bath already procured, and I'm sure we'll have a fine night there, watching and supporting Quins. Its what we do.
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I’m a bit surprised to see the ferocity of some of the criticism. Yes, it was not a first XV team, but it wasn’t the personnel that was the problem, (with the exception of Ross Chisholm who had an absolute abortion!) it was tactics, pure and simple.
We ran the same set pieces over and over. The dummying forward options were so flat and obvious that they were ignored and the one dimensional play-making made the gain line that much more difficult to traverse. It’s the third or fourth match where we have failed to respond and adapt to inclement conditions. James Lang seems to be the only person to find touch in the last 4 games but we persevere with box kicking in 5h1t conditions.
The running lines of our midfield are 1 dimensional, which is probably for the best because Landajo has the peripheral vision of Ray Charles.
This wasn’t a second XV issue. This was a root and branch issue. We were NOT good enough.
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Looking at the results after Saturday we would have been really in the mix to go through had we made more of an effort to win that game. There are three other groups where second place has nine points and Ulster still have to go to Clermont.
The teams who appear regularly in Europe fight for every point.
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For anyone to say that’s their worst night at the Stoop obviously hasn’t been going that long
Sorry but season openers against Sarries
Complete humiliation by Exeter at the end of a season etc
And it’s part of sport there’s ups and downs in sport, didn’t enjoy the game at all, but fully understand the team selection
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Nick Cain in TRP quoting this board this morning to criticise the Club for putting up a 2nd team this morning! Pretty lazy journalism but they are taking it as the mood of the supporters.
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So, given these comments about selection strategy, what do you think will happen in the Clermont game at the Stoop? I no longer live in London and am travelling a long way to The Stoop with some buddies to watch the game. Given what some of you have been saying about selection strategy, coupled with our (apparent) failure to get out of the group, are we just going to see a half-hearted "reserve" team struggling to make an impression ?
I suspect by this time Clermont will have qualified for the quarters and our Premiership position will be clear. So it will be a weaker (and that will not be that weak) Clermont side with nothing to play for and a Quins side wanting to put down a mark. So it'll be a good game and well worth watching. There is the usual health warning that this will be 6 weeks away and who knows what will happen in between.
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So, given these comments about selection strategy, what do you think will happen in the Clermont game at the Stoop? I no longer live in London and am travelling a long way to The Stoop with some buddies to watch the game. Given what some of you have been saying about selection strategy, coupled with our (apparent) failure to get out of the group, are we just going to see a half-hearted "reserve" team struggling to make an impression ?
Have you booked your train tickets/flights yet? ;D
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So, given these comments about selection strategy, what do you think will happen in the Clermont game at the Stoop? I no longer live in London and am travelling a long way to The Stoop with some buddies to watch the game. Given what some of you have been saying about selection strategy, coupled with our (apparent) failure to get out of the group, are we just going to see a half-hearted "reserve" team struggling to make an impression ?
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Let's be frank. We have seen far worse from a team of first XV players. Our team was decent for a long period but were outclassed by a stronger team who are targeting Europe. Yes, it wasn't a great performance and was a bit gutting for those of of us who were excited by a pre-Christmas Friday night European adventure. But there is a lot to take from the game, if the players are positive and willing to learn.
I watched it back this morning and, pre-match, Gussy was talking about the long term need to rotate players; he has aspirations to be involved in the semis in June and wants to have his full selection available. Makes sense.
While I am gutted that our European pursuits are over, and never really began, we need to recognise our place as a team that is growing into prominence in the league. That has to be our focus. The Worcester defeat was a shocker but otherwise we haven't been too far off expectations in the league, really. We have to go in to the game against Wasps with a killer mentality. No more "oh, we were so close." I think if we put them to bed and spank Leicester at Big Game, we go into the Enya classic with some momentum and self-belief.
I have absolute faith in Gussy. I think we need to beware the football mentality of one defeat leading to questions of the sack. He is shaping the squad and fitting us for the future. I understand his vision and am excited about where we can go. It is not going to be a bump-free road, that's all.
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Maybe we are concentrating on the league?!
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Somehow I have the feeling that the result would be 52:48!
I know he creates a lot of fake accounts, but had no idea it was 52...
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Somehow I have the feeling that the result would be 52:48!
You really think posters won't want to be free of Bish?!!! 🙂
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The likelihood of us getting out of the pool was very small after two losses
It made sense to rest some players, it’s a risk but surely it’s better to have a full strength side for Wasps, Tigers and Sale and give us some security in the Premiership
As for a disgrace thought our defence in the first half was immense, all will be forgiven if we get good results in the Premiership and the strategy pays off
If the strategy doesn’t work some serious question will need to be asked
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I can't understand what Gastard's rotation policy is meant to achieve - other than give every squad member a chance to play.
The squad may be better on paper than JK's but this is not showing on the pitch. If anything it is going backwards - the early promise of a strong defence has evaporated, discipline is still poor, attacking options are all too predictable.
Getting rid of Gussy now is not justified but results over the whole of 2019 have been dismal. The next two league games are now 'must wins' and will determine Gastard's creditability as a coach and his future at the club.
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Agree with squad size and that is what PG believes in as well. But it takes time to get the right squad size and balance. Can not just buy and sell players in middle of season. If Earle did not have serious injury we would not have signed one of the wingers. However you do need squad players who may have limited game time for training and holding tackle shields etc. Is a difficult balance!
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Now I understand. We play in the league to finish in the top 6,to go play in Europe.
But when we play in Europe, we let play the reserves
When you lose a game the comment is et's think about the next one,when we lose the next we think at the game after.
Ho letto le stesse cose per anni. Quando vinciamo siamo bravi quando perdiamo è colpa dell'arbitro.Sometimes even when we win it is the referee's fault. We have 45 players But to do what?
Better to have fewer players but more quality. Pg He is unable to manage a team.Few ideas and confusion.Who is that strong player who can come and play for us if we have no European ambitions.
Landajo,have really played 90 times with national Argentina?
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I think we should have a referendum to give Bish his independence...
Somehow I have the feeling that the result would be 52:48!
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I agree Bish. When are you going?
I think we should have a referendum to give Bish his independence...
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Get rid of the clown now
I agree Bish. When are you going?
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I love threads like this. Where were the same naysayers after the two recent wins?
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I didnt have a problem with the team selection myself. In all reality we were unlikely to go through given the first 3 games. An outside chance but unlikely. Had we won last week it would have changed everything but we did not. I get the argument about "why play all year to come 6th and then not take the comp serious" but we did take it serious, and messed it up last week (and too a degree in Clermont).
Robshaw and Care cant play every week (I actually wonder if Care is able to last 80 mins now). The rest of the squad need to start stepping up and taking responsibility
The only area that had me worried was the half backs. In the end we never saw much of Herron and I thought Landajo was an improvement on his previous efforts (lets hope that continues). Not too sure I see the merit in getting rid of Gustard myself. I still think he will do a good job for us.
I think our "Skills" coach needs to start earning his money as some of our passing was terrible (but to add some was also very good). Ellias throwing was on the money which was great, Lewies is coming into his own and Semi was everywhere (Although him and Cavubati seem inclined to give away daft pens for no reason).
I also expect Semi will be on the naughty step for a bit as he blatantly had his hand over the Ulsters players face during the maul near the end. No gounging but a silly and needless thing to do.
Im looking forward to getting back to league action next week. As it stands, I dont think we have the squad to compete on two levels and would prefer some league consistency and us to try and establish ourselves as top 4 contenders.
I wish I could like this post twice. One of the few sensible posts on this thread.
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Counldnt agree more with your summary. Now is not the time to get rid of Gustard.
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You can not judge a English team success based on European rugby. Only Saracens have competed on two fronts - and we know how - in the last 5 years. Considering we probably only had 4 dead certs in the starting 15 from our best possible team - I thought for 50 mins against an organised side we did well. This squad and side is much better than under JK. Ross had a shocker, Dombrandt was poor, and lots of handling errors but until subs came on we still had a chance. base team on domestic rugby not Europe.
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He didnt look happy during the game and most of that seemed to be directed at the ref. Threw his arms up in the air a few times at a couple of "dubious" decisions against us.
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Im not sure why PG would target this game when the priority surely needs to be the next two Prem games .
It highlights we don't have strength in depth especially as some of our 'better' squad players are injured .
3-3 at 39 mins against a full strength Ulster side , 10-24 with less than 10 mins and there was still hope , but then silly penalties , overthrows and dropped balls in the rain , heads dropped and we gifted them a couple of easy run ins .
Tough to watch but I don't think there is any shame to losing to that team .
At least 8 points against Wasps and Tigers and we will all be jolly again ! ( for a while )
I don’t think anyone was suggested we should ‘target this game’. I think it’s more a case of being disappointed by the lack of ambition. Picking the side we did effectively handed Ulster the game before we’d even kicked-off. Our first team wasn’t quite good enough to beat them so why would anyone think our reserves could do it?
I understand we are prioritising the Premiership games following our poor start, but what is the point of striving to get in to the Champions Cup all season and then putting out a reserve team for a home game when you can still qualify.
If Sinckler is heading off to Bristol, I don’t blame him. They are a club on the up and I can understand why the positivity, ambition and playing style would be attractive. A very marked contrast to how I feel about Quins at the moment.
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Kyle Sinckler was subbed/game changed in the second half. He didn't sit down with the the other subs/game changers, but stood leaning on the wall leading into the player's tunnel.
He looked very unhappy. Wasn't speaking to anyone. Just fed up with the way the game was turning out, or dreaming of playing for Bristol?
Probably reflecting on his win ratio as a Capt !
Doesn't matter how good bad or indifferent a player is , if he doesn't want to give 100% for his shirt he needs to go .
Hopefully whatever is going to happen with him is sorted out quickly so we can either get behind him or wave him goodbye and wish him well .
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Im not sure why PG would target this game when the priority surely needs to be the next two Prem games .
It highlights we don't have strength in depth especially as some of our 'better' squad players are injured .
3-3 at 39 mins against a full strength Ulster side , 10-24 with less than 10 mins and there was still hope , but then silly penalties , overthrows and dropped balls in the rain , heads dropped and we gifted them a couple of easy run ins .
Tough to watch but I don't think there is any shame to losing to that team .
At least 8 points against Wasps and Tigers and we will all be jolly again ! ( for a while )
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True. Seems to be too inconsistent, good, then bad. TRP seemed to think we were on the look out for a FB to cover Brown (and cover at Hooker short term)
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Unfortunately Ross Chisholm had one of the worst games of any player in living memory, so much of their pressure came from him dropping the ball.
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And to add, I think Lasike needs a run in the side. Created the try with his carry (making space). Everytime he gets the balls he breaks the line and attracts defenders. Real battering ram that is very hard to stop.
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I didnt have a problem with the team selection myself. In all reality we were unlikely to go through given the first 3 games. An outside chance but unlikely. Had we won last week it would have changed everything but we did not. I get the argument about "why play all year to come 6th and then not take the comp serious" but we did take it serious, and messed it up last week (and too a degree in Clermont).
Robshaw and Care cant play every week (I actually wonder if Care is able to last 80 mins now). The rest of the squad need to start stepping up and taking responsibility
The only area that had me worried was the half backs. In the end we never saw much of Herron and I thought Landajo was an improvement on his previous efforts (lets hope that continues). Not too sure I see the merit in getting rid of Gustard myself. I still think he will do a good job for us.
I think our "Skills" coach needs to start earning his money as some of our passing was terrible (but to add some was also very good). Ellias throwing was on the money which was great, Lewies is coming into his own and Semi was everywhere (Although him and Cavubati seem inclined to give away daft pens for no reason).
I also expect Semi will be on the naughty step for a bit as he blatantly had his hand over the Ulsters players face during the maul near the end. No gounging but a silly and needless thing to do.
Im looking forward to getting back to league action next week. As it stands, I dont think we have the squad to compete on two levels and would prefer some league consistency and us to try and establish ourselves as top 4 contenders.
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Kyle Sinckler was subbed/game changed in the second half. He didn't sit down with the the other subs/game changers, but stood leaning on the wall leading into the player's tunnel.
He looked very unhappy. Wasn't speaking to anyone. Just fed up with the way the game was turning out, or dreaming of playing for Bristol?
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If the club have any ambition they will sack Gustard and half the squad will walk with him.
Yep that'll work well early in the season. And replace him with who?
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If the club have any ambition they will sack Gustard and half the squad will walk with him.
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what's the meaning of this selection and subsequent performance? Empty Stoop in the near future...
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Gustard is the clown that needs getting rid of - not sink ..
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I brought a mate, technically he brought me as he drove, and was rather embarrassed by that! I didn't expect much but a bietter effort would have been good.
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Gustard’s team selection ripped the heart out of that game for players and supporters alike. The atmosphere at the ground was deflated from the outset and despairing by the end. I don’t walk early but I did tonight. If the coach doesn’t care why should I? Just depressing.
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Utterly pointless waste of time. I was really looking forward to this game untilI saw the teamsheet. What followed was utterly predictable and frankly dull to watch.
I am not getting at the players although I thought their heads went down in the last 20 minutes.
If teams are going to give up after a couple of games they are going to have to change the group format as it is unfair on other teams trying to qualify as second placed.
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I don’t think Sinckler was awful, he’s probably just wondering why he’s wasting his time at Quins. Big game, playing with reserves. He’d be better off at any of the other top 6 English sides
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That’s it everyone, let’s get behind the team
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Not fussed if Sinckler goes. He was awful
Get rid of the clown now
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Completely agree Benquin that team selection was disrespectful to our supporters who pay a lot of money and travel long distances to watch that load of crap. I am really angry and I hope Gustard gets some stick from fans tonight.
It just isn't good enough not to put out your best team when your still in the completion.
Why spend all season trying to finish Top 6, why bother.
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Not fussed if Sinckler goes. He was awful
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Point proven, utter disgrace! Tonight was awful, been a season ticket holder for 20 years and this is possibly the most depressing evening I have ever had at the stoop, obviously felt throughout the stadium as it was empty after 70 minutes
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Very negative disappointing selection, we mathematically can still get out the group, loose last week away by one point (Gustard praising us for a loosing bonus point, why does that matter when u are planning on not selecting your best team next week). We should be throwing all at this game, very disappointing for the fans who have payed a higher ticket price for a European game. Also disappointing for the players who have been rested, these European games are the ones that live in the memories for fans and players. This game would have been one of the ones highlighted by the players at the beginning of the season that they were excited for. It’s a UTTERLY DISAPPOINTING AND NEGATIVE! I can see selections like this dividing the club and driving the “rested” players out to another club where they can start in European games (maybe that’s the plan) free up some salary for sink. Why pay Robshaw care Marler top salaries when you are not going to play them in the biggest games!