ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Wednesday 15-Aug-2018, 10:33*
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It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.
Also (again I do love MB but)....he doesn't have the temperament to talk to sir. We'd end up getting marched back when the red mist descends.
Mike Brown's red mist is a myth. Look at his disciplinary record - I'd be willing to bet that there have been more yellow cards issued for fouls *on* Mike Brown than for fouls *by* Mike Brown. He's shouty and passionate and doesn't tolerate poor performance - but he also has an incredibly well-developed sense of where the line is and how not to cross it. I think that's one of the reasons opposing teams hate him so much: it looks like he's going to fall foul of the ref, but he almost never does because he stops exactly where the boundary falls.
I would have no concerns about him talking to the ref. I'd be more worried that fullback is just not the best position to be influencing the ref, and you run the risk of being out of position.
But he did it for Quins and England last season (annoying the ref).
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Horwill and Robshaw would do for me. The two most experienced captains by far.
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All the talk is about leaders but we need someone with a proper rugby brain too. Robshaw had it - excluding his one moment in the World Cup. Horwill has it. Danny and Joe - NOT. Dave Ward is a popular choice but not necessarily a first starter with the new crop coming through and can get too hot headed. Wallace? Maybe. Young Chisholm? Not enough experience and again not necessarily first choice on the team sheet. Clifford if he was fit! remember him being talked about as a future England Captain and seems to have a rugby head on his shoulders.
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Bothma has played 6 games. Six! Let him concentrate on playing regularly and proving he’s as good as some thing. He doesn’t need the captaincy and we have better candidates.
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Not sure we have many whose place is unchallenged and not an international. Is Horwill’s season being tainted with the lack of coaching nouse and fitness that plagued the whole team?
I’d want to see Bothma string a couple of months rugby together before making him captain. He certainly has potential, but can’t see what he’s proved that makes him captaincy material. I’d stick with Horwill this season.
I agree Cookie , whilst Horwill didn't appear particularly effective last year , he was plagued by personal injury and a team lacking confidence in the second half of the season . He was deemed by experienced management to be good enough to skipper the Wallabies before Quins , so I'm sure he must have all the right qualities.
Bothma ( again as an International Capt) will be a future leader , but I would like to see him get a successful season under his belt and concentrate on his own game .
If Gustard is naming 2 , then I wouldn't surprised to see Danny Care in the mix especially if it becomes more apparent that his England career has stalled.
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as long as he keeps it well oiled it will be fine
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Lets hope he does not rust
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Not sure we have many whose place is unchallenged and not an international. Is Horwill’s season being tainted with the lack of coaching nouse and fitness that plagued the whole team?
I’d want to see Bothma string a couple of months rugby together before making him captain. He certainly has potential, but can’t see what he’s proved that makes him captaincy material. I’d stick with Horwill this season.
Bothma leads from the front. He's very much in the thick of it and makes some very hard yards. The kind of guy you want on your side in a battle.
If he stays fit, I think he'll be a key player this season. I hope his arm stays in one piece, although it seems to be more titanium than bone these days.
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Not sure we have many whose place is unchallenged and not an international. Is Horwill’s season being tainted with the lack of coaching nouse and fitness that plagued the whole team?
I’d want to see Bothma string a couple of months rugby together before making him captain. He certainly has potential, but can’t see what he’s proved that makes him captaincy material. I’d stick with Horwill this season.
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My preference for captain is a player who is around through the season and not on international call.
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It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.
Also (again I do love MB but)....he doesn't have the temperament to talk to sir. We'd end up getting marched back when the red mist descends.
Mike Brown's red mist is a myth. Look at his disciplinary record - I'd be willing to bet that there have been more yellow cards issued for fouls *on* Mike Brown than for fouls *by* Mike Brown. He's shouty and passionate and doesn't tolerate poor performance - but he also has an incredibly well-developed sense of where the line is and how not to cross it. I think that's one of the reasons opposing teams hate him so much: it looks like he's going to fall foul of the ref, but he almost never does because he stops exactly where the boundary falls.
I would have no concerns about him talking to the ref. I'd be more worried that fullback is just not the best position to be influencing the ref, and you run the risk of being out of position.
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Having read all the thread I have been persuaded by the discussion to go with Bothma, lets hope PG agrees with me!
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I thought it was Barnes but wasn't certain.
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It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.
Also (again I do love MB but)....he doesn't have the temperament to talk to sir. We'd end up getting marched back when the red mist descends.
I don't think that would be the case, but this reminded me of a time when MB took over the captaincy on the field when the captain went off (I can't remember if last season or the one before), something happened on the field at MB went to talk to the ref, who told him to go away as he wasn't captain, MB was quick to remind the ref that he was.
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Browny's been vice-captain for us before. Remember that exchange with Wayne Barnes when he went to talk to him after a penalty:
WB: "You're not Captain!"
MB: "Yes I am!"
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It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.
Also (again I do love MB but)....he doesn't have the temperament to talk to sir. We'd end up getting marched back when the red mist descends.
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I think Bothma would be a fine choice. If he stays fit, I can't see him not being first choice.
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It also comes down to position. A scrum half can always get in the ref's ear. It's harder for the wing/FB if you have to run in to talk to him every time.
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Totally agree but it's not going to work as captain - you need a voice like Brown's on the pitch 100% but not as skipper.
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and he cared!
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I have a feeling it will be a Brown/Horwill combo.
Well if brown spends as much time this year shouting at his teammates and sulking as he did last year that’ll be a disaster
I was much more worried about the players who weren't shouting and sulking last season. For all the criticism you can level at Brownie, at least he knew when things weren't right.
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I have a feeling it will be a Brown/Horwill combo.
Well if brown spends as much time this year shouting at his teammates and sulking as he did last year that’ll be a disaster
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Think Bothma needs to prove he's worthy of starting regularly ahead of all other options before we make him captain. Jury's still out on him.
+1. On paper he looks the outstanding candidate to nail down the 8 shirt for us but lots of variables at play given his recent injury lay-offs.
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Think Bothma needs to prove he's worthy of starting regularly ahead of all other options before we make him captain. Jury's still out on him.
This
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Think Bothma needs to prove he's worthy of starting regularly ahead of all other options before we make him captain. Jury's still out on him.
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Probably hasn't played in Namibia's recent games because he had a broken arm for most of the last year (and didn't play in most of our games either)?
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Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namibia_national_rugby_union_team#Current_squad) still lists him in the Current Squad as the only No8
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I dont think he played in their recent games. I would be surprised he missed any Quins games due to internationals
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I think Bothma is a good suggestion. With his arm suitably plated he shouldn't have a problem with it now. He's had lots of time off as a result so won't be one of the walking wounded thrown back in the fray too quickly. Won't be away for Internationals.
He'll be away for the Namibian games.
I wasn't aware he still played for them. Is he still captain?
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I like the idea that Gussy hasn't rushed his decision but is taking his time to take a proper look with the pre-season friendlies. Luke Wallace would be my wild card to be in the mix
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I think Bothma is a good suggestion. With his arm suitably plated he shouldn't have a problem with it now. He's had lots of time off as a result so won't be one of the walking wounded thrown back in the fray too quickly. Won't be away for Internationals.
He'll be away for the Namibian games.
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I think Bothma is a good suggestion. With his arm suitably plated he shouldn't have a problem with it now. He's had lots of time off as a result so won't be one of the walking wounded thrown back in the fray too quickly. Won't be away for Internationals.
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Trying to keep a lid on it I thought.
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I could get with Baby Chis, if he is fit enough to hold down a regular starting spot. And having two captains would spread the load if one of them is an international.
What intrigued me was the comment on Smith:
There are loads of things where he is not at the level he wants to get to. He is self-aware enough of things he needs to do and we have identified key areas and will continue to help him work on that.
A mutual commitment to making him a better player is quite an exciting prospect.
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I think that J. Chis would be a good shout. I think he was fan's player of the season last year - so he is popular. He works hard and I reckon that the team would follow him.
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Bothma is the man.
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I would be very happy with 1 (or 2) of Robshaw, Bothma, J. Chisholm, Horwill.
For me, they are all nailed on starters when fit.
Clifford would be my wildcard but he seems too injury prone.
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hope it’s Robshaw he always leads by example or Brown,hopefully they will be with us all season as i think they will not make the England team this season.
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I'm putting my money on a Mike Brown/James Chisholm combo...
J Chis would be an interesting choice. He was one of our more effective players last season & would be in with a shout as starting in the back-row most games...
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I have a feeling it will be a Brown/Horwill combo.
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I think if he could stay fit Bothma would be a first choice all season. Also captains Namibia. injuries may be his issue.
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I believe who ever it is, they have to be there for the whole season and not disappear during internationals - as we must surely be after consistency?
I also believe we need to choose someone who is not injury prone.
Following that criteria, i can't think of anyone
;)
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Make Joe the Captain again to save the intermediary?
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who could be captain
1 no
2 possible but no standout h00ker certain of place
3 no
4/5 yes but only Horwill fits the bill, and last season he didn't impress me with leadership
6,7 & 8 only Robshaw is leadership material and guaranteed a place but again only for part of season
9 no
10 no
12, 13 possible but no stand out candidates
11, 14 no
15 Possible but not the best position and Browney likely to be away he is an on field leader anyway so again a no
So I understand Gustards problem lots of good players but not certain who is first choice in each position hopefully Gustard knows.
so only Horwill and Robshaw are strong candidates but might be a left field choice but doubt it
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I'm putting my money on a Mike Brown/James Chisholm combo...
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Thinking after some of the comments about Care in pre season and leading from the front, he is another option.
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New Guv'nor, new captain seems to be the rule. Will be interesting to see what he sees in the squad, having spent time with them. Robshaw is still the obvious choice for experience, but will be interesting to see how this pans out.
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Might also suggest that Horwill is not 100% and likely to remain crook for some time. Generally a lack of leadership options and hangover from previous management.
Robshaw and Ward (if he's going to cover h00ker/7 again)? Might need three....
Really hope not Ward - love having him at the club but really want him to be on the bench most of the season.
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I think Ward might be lucky to make the side.
I certainly hope Ward will be lucky to make the side. Recruitment of a team that can really compete has failed dismally, if he is anything higher than third-choice option.
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I think Ward might be lucky to make the side.
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Might also suggest that Horwill is not 100% and likely to remain crook for some time. Generally a lack of leadership options and hangover from previous management.
Robshaw and Ward (if he's going to cover h00ker/7 again)? Might need three....
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Interesting that he mentions that he might have 2 names, which suggests he could pick someone who'll be away on International duty, with a Deputy who'll not be called up. Robshaw & Horwill spring to mind as proven leaders who'd fit the bill...
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https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/rugby/paul-gustard-delays-harlequins-captaincy-decision-until-final-preseason-friendly-a3911946.html