ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Cookie on Thursday 27-Sep-2018, 14:24*
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I enjoy Morgan's articles but this one doesn't answer it's title. It's an interesting analysis of what the penalties were for, and highlights a gradual loss of discipline as the match wore on, but it doesn't really say how to stop it.
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Completely agree DOK. Drives me mad!
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What irritates me is often the penalty is not necessary. I can understand if you're outnumbered on the try line you might risk a penalty slowing the ball down and all that, but in the middle of the field it really is not necessary. Just give up possession and go into defence mode. We were very good at pressing them back on Saturday, tackling early enough they didn't get over the gain line. Then we'd give away a penalty and they'd boot it 40+ metres upfield. Urgh! All that effort wasted.
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Good analysis, as usual from Morgan.
I finally watch the highlights last night. Marler's yellow was a bit harsh but probably right. Not the sort of forearm fend you get from some players, especially some of the Pacific Island players. It looked like an attempt at a proper handoff gone wrong. Complete overreaction from the Bristol player.
Lasike's yellow was just stupid and actually the sort of thing you should get dropped for to get the message through.
Glynn and South's penalties I'm fine with, but again it's the inconsistency that's so frustrating. Some many players go beyond the ball or fail to support their own bodyweight with no punishment.
Ward's penalty just idiotic.
Don't understand Sinckler's one, but haven't seen it. How can the ref be sure he wa changing his bind to try to collapse the scrum?
Gennerally though that is a ridiculous number of penalties. It's not just the points conceded, but the affect on our momentum. Will refs also now judge us more hardly as they think we are struggling?
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Vey interesting piece frustrating for Team, coaches and us and I am sure teams will take advantage. The fact he says that he thinks it is due to lack of trust between players very frustrating and presumably why the army and hellos came in. Makes you realise what a brilliant team ethos we had in 2012 when everyone trusted each other. Let’s hope it can get sorted and in the meantime they can build a team ethos.
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Interesting article - I think that it is always good to distinguish between forced penalties and stupid penalties like this. It is almost impossible to not give away any penalties - but penalties such as Ward's offside are really frustrating as the actual kick gave us a really good field position.
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Interesting piece thanks , Top penalty count , but not one player in the top 10 of penalty infringers for the Prem .
I wonder if that's the flip side of ' lack of confidence' - ie trying too hard across the board to influence every situation into a positive outcome ?
When sometimes you have to accept that you've lost the ball and move on ...
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Paul Gustard's Harlequins, who have conceded 50 penalties so far this season, face Gloucester on Saturday looking to avoid four straight defeats
Charlie Morgan
27 SEPTEMBER 2018 • 10:33 AM
The link between ill-discipline and poor results in rugby is fairly strong. England’s recent run of losses was characterised by flurries of penalties.
Over four rounds of the Gallagher Premiership this season, Harlequins have been pinged 50 times. Their half-century is the highest tally of penalties in the division. Bristol and Worcester are the next most frequent offenders, shipping 48 each.
Interestingly, league leaders Saracens are fourth with 45. Penalties do not always mean defeats. But they are not often helpful – as Harlequins are finding out. According to Opta, this is the run-down of how Paul Gustard’s players have felt the wrath of officials:
Understandably, the breakdown and the set piece – usually the site of ‘forced’ penalties – account for a big proportion of these infringements. However, the spread of offences is wide. And the record cannot be attributed to one individual. No Harlequins player is in the Premiership’s top 10 for penalties conceded.
Saturday’s 20-13 loss to Bristol, during which they lost the penalty count 13-6, emphasises Harlequins’ collective discipline problem. Eight different players conceded penalties. Three of those penalties brought yellow cards. Five penalties were kicked by Bristol fly-half Ian Madigan to score 15 points.
Unforced errors were committed and discipline was undoubtedly a major factor in their third defeat of the season. This is the spread of offences collared by referee Ian Tempest during the match:
Examining each one of these individually outlines how Harlequins are damaging their prospects but also where they can make rapid improvements this weekend against Gloucester.
Penalty one
Harlequins did not concede one penalty in the first 10 minutes and promptly built a 7-0 lead thanks to a try from Danny Care. This first penalty, which comes on the halfway line, is the sort of offence that many teams will commit against Bristol’s patient, possession-heavy game.
After making a tackle, Joe Marler becomes trapped under the carrier and impedes Bristol’s clear-out as Luke Wallace attacks the ball legally. Tempest has no choice, but it is an unlucky one.
Penalty two
Eighteen minutes in, and Harlequins are 10-0 ahead. Again, they are unlucky. Marler appears to have released the tackled player, beaten the Bristol clearers to the ball and retained a strong body position.
Tempest does not see it that way and tells him to leave the ball. This is where Marler should have recoiled – even if this is tough for a player when they are convinced that they are legal. He does not, though, and Madigan takes three points.
Penalty three
Ben Tapuai scrambles back following a line-break from Alapati Leiua. He lingers slightly too long on top of the carrier in an attempt to buy Harlequins time. Tempest clocks this and brandishes a justifiable yellow card. Although Bristol go to the corner, their field position comes to nothing.
Penalty four
Marler kicks through the ruck soon after the Harlequins restart that follows Piers O’Conor’s try for Bristol. The offence gives the hosts an easy out.
Teams often target opponents as they try to clear with ‘exit plays’ because a turnover can turn the course of the game but this is overzealous from Marler.
Penalty five
On the stroke of half-time, Harlequins have forced a five-metre put-in. However, Tempest spots Kyle Sinckler changing his bind…
…and says he “cranked down” on opposite number Yann Thomas. Whether or not Sinckler was intentionally trying to buy a penalty himself, Tempest punishes him.
Penalty six
Here we see the danger of compounding penalties. When Matt Symons (4) comes in at the side of this Bristol maul, a second consecutive touch-finder means a 60-metre swing…
Penalty seven
…then, after Bristol pierce the 22 and keep the ball, Ben Glynn (5, and visible by his headband) overbalances beyond the ball. All of a sudden, having been five metres from Bristol’s line and 10-8 ahead in the 39th minute, Harlequins are 11-10 down going into half-time.
Penalty eight
Marler’s fourth trangression brings Harlequins’ second yellow card. The offence itself, leading with the elbow or forearm of the non-carrying arm, is something that referees will be looking out for given a number of high-profile cases recently and the heightened consciousness of head injuries.
For those reasons, although it could be argued that wet conditions might have made a regular fend slip up the body of tackler Andy Uren, it is difficult to make too many excuses. Madigan extends Bristol’s advantage.
Penalty nine
Replacement Dave Ward, who has joined the fray seconds previously, advances in front of box-kicker Care on the near side of the ruck, despite being shouted at by Tempest and told to retreat. This one is an avoidable lapse of concentration…
Penalty 10
…and Ward, seemingly on the wrong side of the referee immediately, compounds his own infringement by collapsing Bristol’s breakaway maul shortly afterwards. Madigan adds a further three points.
Penalty 11
Another replacement infringes just seconds after arriving on the field. Stan South supports his bodyweight with his right fist before scraping back onto the ball.
It is a stern spot from Tempest, but 22 year-old South should take some responsibility as well. From the bench, he would have seen Marler and Glynn give away penalties for similar offences earlier and should have adpated accordingly. As it is, Madigan kicks his fifth and final penalty.
Penalty 12
Penalties conceded while in possession often signal a lack of cohesion. Here, Renaldo Bothma expects a pass from Ward but does not receive one, leaving him in front of his teammate as the hooker takes contact.
Rather than doubling around the back foot, as Bristol’s Nick Fenton-Wells approaches the ball, Bothma cuts a corner and comes in at the side. Tempest spots it straightaway.
Penalty 13
Seven points adrift just over two minutes before full-time, Harlequins are clearly chasing the game by this stage. Paul Lasike’s shoulder-charge on Madigan exudes immense frustration.
Bristol are playing with advantage here, but Lasike has already made a good read – anticipating a pull-back pass to Madigan from Jake Armstrong and rushing through – and has forced Bristol’s fly-half to flap at the ball.
The illegal challenge is unnecessary and costs a third yellow card for the visitors.
In many ways, that is the story of Harlequins’ three consecutive losses, which have maintained the malaise of last season at the start of Gustard’s regime. Their continuing ill-discipline is an indictment of their trust in one another and in their attacking and defensive systems.
It is an indictment of their on- and off-field leadership, too. Former England skipper Chris Robshaw has been captaining them, which does not reflect well on him. And yet, many of the infringements made against Bristol – especially the foul play, the offside and three overzealous attempts to steal at the breakdown – have easy fixes.
Harlequins travel to Kingsholm on Saturday and then host Saracens before the Premiership breaks for Europe. With November comes a Test window, where they traditionally find things tough. Marler’s England retirement and re-newed focus on club matters is sure to help them. He remains a fine player. Still, improvements must come fast.