ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Fearless Fred on Tuesday 16-Jan-2024, 12:50*
-
Alex Grey was a guest on The Good, The Bad & The Rugby podcast this week and he explains how NFL salaries, opportunities, getting cut etc. all works. Very insightful. Unfortunately, Alex Payne was absent to you've got James Haskell as main anchor. As insufferable as that may sound, Alex's input was very interesting!
He gave an example of the cutthroat nature of getting cut in the NFL. Essentially, if they don't think LRZ is taking well to the sport for whatever reason then he's gone - and they would only have to pay the guaranteed amount stipulated on his contract. One example was a high profile quarter back that signed an $80m guaranteed 5 year contract with a team and he didn't fit in well after the first season so they cut him and just paid him his $80m.
If they can do that to someone high profile on those sort of numbers then cutting a practice squad player on hundreds of thousands of dollars wouldn't even take a second thought.
Did they ask him why he's called Apollo on Gladiators when everyone knows Luke Wallace is Apollo?
-
So one possible best case scenario is that he totally flops and gets dropped soon, but walks away with nearly a million dollars?
Or he could do well and earn more.
Could well be, so long as his guaranteed amount isn't lower.
-
If they can do that to someone high profile on those sort of numbers then cutting a practice squad player on hundreds of thousands of dollars wouldn't even take a second thought.
So one possible best case scenario is that he totally flops and gets dropped soon, but walks away with nearly a million dollars?
Or he could do well and earn more.
-
Alex Grey was a guest on The Good, The Bad & The Rugby podcast this week and he explains how NFL salaries, opportunities, getting cut etc. all works. Very insightful. Unfortunately, Alex Payne was absent to you've got James Haskell as main anchor. As insufferable as that may sound, Alex's input was very interesting!
He gave an example of the cutthroat nature of getting cut in the NFL. Essentially, if they don't think LRZ is taking well to the sport for whatever reason then he's gone - and they would only have to pay the guaranteed amount stipulated on his contract. One example was a high profile quarter back that signed an $80m guaranteed 5 year contract with a team and he didn't fit in well after the first season so they cut him and just paid him his $80m.
If they can do that to someone high profile on those sort of numbers then cutting a practice squad player on hundreds of thousands of dollars wouldn't even take a second thought.
And then there are MLB contracts that are even bigger.
-
Alex Grey was a guest on The Good, The Bad & The Rugby podcast this week and he explains how NFL salaries, opportunities, getting cut etc. all works. Very insightful. Unfortunately, Alex Payne was absent to you've got James Haskell as main anchor. As insufferable as that may sound, Alex's input was very interesting!
He gave an example of the cutthroat nature of getting cut in the NFL. Essentially, if they don't think LRZ is taking well to the sport for whatever reason then he's gone - and they would only have to pay the guaranteed amount stipulated on his contract. One example was a high profile quarter back that signed an $80m guaranteed 5 year contract with a team and he didn't fit in well after the first season so they cut him and just paid him his $80m.
If they can do that to someone high profile on those sort of numbers then cutting a practice squad player on hundreds of thousands of dollars wouldn't even take a second thought.
-
Depends what you mean by "in the grand scheme of things".
Even if he never gets out of bed, he'll get a million dollars over the next 3 years. Not much for an NFL player, but in the grand scheme of things pretty significant, and much much more than he'd have got playing rugby.
Well he was on circa £230-250k at Glos according to several reports, so with Wales or B&I Lions money on top, there's probably not a lot of difference.
In terms of Chiefs signing bonus, I'd be hugely surprised if it was more than $100k region. I certainly wouldn't say no, but it won't be anywhere even close to 7 figures.
-
LRZ's contract is getting attention for two reasons - one is that it's pretty large for a player who's never played a competitive game, and the other is that he's been taken straight into the main squad rather than via the IPP. I think the latter means he's being paid fully by the Chiefs, and not subsidised by the NFL itself. They've placed a moderately sized bet, in NFL terms.
It's not large at all though, compared to other IPP players. There is a maximum and minimum annual salary for a practice squad player. I can't remember the exact figures but it's approx $250k-$330k. I might be a little out but I'm in the right region. The larger numbers that have been banded around re LRZ is the annual salary he will earn (as per his contract) IF he makes the active roster.
To answer your second point poorfour, no he hasn't been signed to any 'main squad'. Every NFL franchise gets the option of an extra place on their practice squad only for an IPP player. This is the role LRZ is filling. The team has to pay his salary of course but they get an extra player for their practice squad that other teams don't get if they don't take up the option. For an IPP player, normally he's not even allowed to play any competitive games in his first year, however the rules have changed this year apparently and he could potentially be used as the NFL equivalent of a 'travelling reserve' should they need him because of a player withdrawing late on, etc. Though, as I understand it, there are only around 3 or 4 opportunities for this to even happen because of other stipulations around the rule change.
-
Pretty much. For example, using overthecap.com it shows Josh Allen’s contract is a 6 year extension with a contract value of $258m with $100m fully guaranteed. To reach the full amount he has to be on the roster for all those seasons to have the roster bonus as well as the guarantee amount of that seasons salary which isn’t always the same amount. The salary can be spread at different amounts throughout the length of the contract so the team can stay under the salary cap.
Poor bloke could barely cover Deadly's champagne bill!
-
It sounds a LOT like a US employment contract. 49 states have At Will Employment that allows employers to fire people whenever they like and for no particular reason.
Ah, reminds me of the good old days ...
(Not entirely serious, for any sensitive souls on here 🙂 ).
-
Ah, OK. So it's as much guaranteed as any other NFL contract then.
Pretty much. For example, using overthecap.com it shows Josh Allen’s contract is a 6 year extension with a contract value of $258m with $100m fully guaranteed. To reach the full amount he has to be on the roster for all those seasons to have the roster bonus as well as the guarantee amount of that seasons salary which isn’t always the same amount. The salary can be spread at different amounts throughout the length of the contract so the team can stay under the salary cap.
-
Ah, OK. So it's as much guaranteed as any other NFL contract then.
-
That doesn't sound like a contract.
It sounds a LOT like a US employment contract. 49 states have At Will Employment that allows employers to fire people whenever they like and for no particular reason.
-
Standard NFL contracts are not what would be recognized as contracts in the UK. Typically with a 3 year contract the player is bound for 3 years, but the club can get rid of the player at any time at little or no cost.
That doesn't sound like a contract.
-
Standard NFL contracts are not what would be recognized as contracts in the UK. Typically with a 3 year contract the player is bound for 3 years, but the club can get rid of the player at any time at little or no cost.
-
Did it say anywhere is the amount for the 3 year contract is guaranteed? Could cut him in training cap not have much of a dead cap hit if the contract hasn’t much guaranteed on it. At least he has gone to the team that offers him the best chance to succeed, painful saying it as a Bills fan though. The modified XFL kick off coming into force this year could be interesting.
Would be great to see him make the active roster.
Its a contract. Why would it not be guaranteed?
-
Did it say anywhere is the amount for the 3 year contract is guaranteed? Could cut him in training cap not have much of a dead cap hit if the contract hasn’t much guaranteed on it. At least he has gone to the team that offers him the best chance to succeed, painful saying it as a Bills fan though. The modified XFL kick off coming into force this year could be interesting.
Would be great to see him make the active roster.
-
As I understand it (mostly from watching the excellent Netflix Quarterback series), NFL contracts have a much wider spread of payments than rugby. The best paid guys are earning tens of millions of dollars, but at the lower end teams even the QB is paid at a level that wouldn't be out of place for a first team flyhalf here.
LRZ's contract is getting attention for two reasons - one is that it's pretty large for a player who's never played a competitive game, and the other is that he's been taken straight into the main squad rather than via the IPP. I think the latter means he's being paid fully by the Chiefs, and not subsidised by the NFL itself. They've placed a moderately sized bet, in NFL terms.
The reasoning seems to be that the change to kick return this year - which requires both blockers and defenders to stay on specific lines until the ball is touched - creates space for a runner to get up to speed, and the assumption is that this will suit a rugby running style.
Good luck to him, but it's a tough gig. Very few rugby players have made the transition to date outside of kickers.
-
Probably, but he's highly unlikely to play. He'll most likely train for 3 years and then move back to the UK. He might have got a signing bonus but can't imagine it's huge in the grand scheme of things.
There's a lot of hyperbolic reporting about LRZ at the moment, as if he's taken the NFL by storm and the whole of the US is wowed by him. Hopefully it all goes well for him but he's quite literally a 'nobody' out there at the moment, despite what a lot of UK publications are striving to make out.
On an NFL scale, a few million isn't a big deal. IF that's the level of signing bonus then it's a pretty big deal for LRZ.
I'm not sure they're wowed by him, but they've given him a three year contract when there's no need to. Maybe they see potential in him.
-
Depends what you mean by "in the grand scheme of things".
Even if he never gets out of bed, he'll get a million dollars over the next 3 years. Not much for an NFL player, but in the grand scheme of things pretty significant, and much much more than he'd have got playing rugby.
-
Probably, but he's highly unlikely to play. He'll most likely train for 3 years and then move back to the UK. He might have got a signing bonus but can't imagine it's huge in the grand scheme of things.
There's a lot of hyperbolic reporting about LRZ at the moment, as if he's taken the NFL by storm and the whole of the US is wowed by him. Hopefully it all goes well for him but he's quite literally a 'nobody' out there at the moment, despite what a lot of UK publications are striving to make out.
-
That'll be $884k total, over 3 years. Equivalent to £234k per season.
Presumably he'll get bonuses for playing?
I also read somewhere there's a signing fee. Is that included in the amount stated?
-
Apparently he has a 3 year deal of 884k (dollars)
That'll be $884k total, over 3 years. Equivalent to £234k per season.
-
Apparently he has a 3 year deal of 884k (dollars)
-
Christian Wade was a phenomenal athlete & he couldnt make it onto the game day roster. He knew he was a running back, Rees Zammit hasnt a clue what position he will be, Kansas have made quite a judgement on him with a three year IPP contract. Hopefully George Smith & Harry Mallinder get a contract somewhere too.
-
I've seen the $1m (£900k) quoted in a few places but apparently that's only if he makes an active roster. If picked up by a team but only remaining on the practice squad, it's circa £200k.
Nothing to turn your nose up at but it's probably less than he was earning here.
-
Still a lot more than a Prem non marquee wage.
-
If they do get picked for an NFL franchise they will get a minimum of £1,000,000 dollars so I would say good luck to them it’s worth a punt.
That’s all well and good but what’s the exchange rate for £dollars? 🤔
-
If they do get picked for an NFL franchise they will get a minimum of £1,000,000 dollars so I would say good luck to them it’s worth a punt.
100%.
-
If they do get picked for an NFL franchise they will get a minimum of £1,000,000 dollars so I would say good luck to them it’s worth a punt.
-
His 40 yard dash time was 4.43 which is pretty good for a “bigger” receiver but his broad jump and vertical jump were well off where they need to be and it’ll prevent him from being used as an outside wide receiver.
He’s a sort of slot receiver running back hybrid. Probably shown enough to stick on a practice squad for 2 years, before coming back for RWC 2027.
Cheers for the 40 time, I only read the twitter text. I haven’t seen the scores for the broad or vertical jump yet.
-
His 40 yard dash time was 4.43 which is pretty good for a “bigger” receiver but his broad jump and vertical jump were well off where they need to be and it’ll prevent him from being used as an outside wide receiver.
He’s a sort of slot receiver running back hybrid. Probably shown enough to stick on a practice squad for 2 years, before coming back for RWC 2027.
-
I wonder what position he’ll end up being allocated in the pathway. Say he wants to go down the WR route then 4.50 is only 0.02 below average. Not taking anything away from him, my 40 time would have people popping of for a pint and getting back before I finished.
-
Today is the day
https://twitter.com/TightFive_Rugby/status/1770486879588098467
-
Harry Mallinder giving it a go as well
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sports/american-sports/nfl-rugby-mallinder-rees-zammit-31906286
-
This is what Christian Scotland-Williamson did, lasted four years on practice squads before coming back.
Players can and do stick on the pathway. The most high profile one was a guy called Jordan Mailata who is now one of the best in his position. He’s 6’9 and 150kg plus! Difference is that he went over at 20 and had only played “A” team equivalent rugby league in the NRL in Australia. Nowhere near the history LRZ has and much more malleable.
There are others, but they’re lower profile. One guy is coaching now I think though so people do get full careers over there and not come back.
LRZ is the age that players get drafted into that league at, so it’s prime time for him to work over there for 3-4 years and come back if he never transitions fully. Profiles as a wide receiver most likely. Think Wade played running back rather than receiver despite being a winger on the rugby pitch.
He is a similar age to some players entering the draft but the players of the same age as LRZ have come out of a highly competitive college league, especially if from SEC out of the power 5 conferences let alone high school football. Playing in the power 5 conferences (maybe 4 soon but that’s another story) is such a high level, gives these players coming to draft such an advantage still, for teams like Bama that operate on a virtually pro system isn’t a huge step up to the NFL.
-
That was SunburyQuin. 😁
You all blur into one multi-coloured, quartered blob 😆
-
Ah sorry. Misunderstood what you meant by “2 British players”. I read that as British NFL players.
That was SunburyQuin. 😁
-
Yes, but not ex-rugby. According to Wikipedia he's one of 5 British-born players to have won a Super Bowl.
Ah sorry. Misunderstood what you meant by “2 British players”. I read that as British NFL players.
-
Isn't Osi (the guy who presents the NFL coverage) from London? Won a couple of superbowls so did OK
Yes, but not ex-rugby. According to Wikipedia he's one of 5 British-born players to have won a Super Bowl.
-
I can only think of 2 British players who had decent careers in the NFL - Mick Luckhurst at Atlanta Falcons, John Smith at New England Patriots. BOTH were Field Goal kickers.
Isn't Osi (the guy who presents the NFL coverage) from London? Won a couple of superbowls so did OK
-
BB - The URC does not have a salary cap, which is why Leinster do so well.
However, the Welsh and Scottish franchises have a lot less to spend.
The WRU has imposed a salary cap on the Welsh Regions, apparently £4.5 million.
Glasgow and Edinburgh are part of the SRU, and appear to have a combined budget equal to that of Leicester or Exeter.
Yes, I didn't think so but was aware the Scots and Welsh weren't flush.
Not sure the lack of a cap matters to Irish teams - pretty sure they are all owned and funded by the IRFU who also have the top players centrally contracted.
-
BB - The URC does not have a salary cap, which is why Leinster do so well.
However, the Welsh and Scottish franchises have a lot less to spend.
The WRU has imposed a salary cap on the Welsh Regions, apparently £4.5 million.
Glasgow and Edinburgh are part of the SRU, and appear to have a combined budget equal to that of Leicester or Exeter.
-
10 grand a week? Pah, Deadly's butler doesn't get out of bed for less than £12k
-
As a rookie on the IPP (International Players Pathway) he should get $10,000 per week and if he makes it to first choice elite wide receiver he can expect $15 to $20 million per year..
A pittance compared to your own earnings, eh Dangly?
-
I can only think of 2 British players who had decent careers in the NFL - Mick Luckhurst at Atlanta Falcons, John Smith at New England Patriots. BOTH were Field Goal kickers.
-
As a rookie on the IPP (International Players Pathway) he should get $10,000 per week and if he makes it to first choice elite wide receiver he can expect $15 to $20 million per year..
-
Goneva was an impressive signing don’t forget.
-
I believe he was competing with Travis Ismael for most impressive impact
It was under the limbo bar 😂
-
... The loss of Welsh players playing in the Wales is a big problem and hopefully the same doesn’t happen in England. I think there is a big problem with the salary cap for all home nations teams that needs to be addressed asap.
Is there a salary cap in Wales, Scotland or Ireland?
-
He did turn out for Quins a few times, just a few, now working in law somewhere
I believe he was competing with Travis Ismael for most impressive impact
-
I can only assume this is a lie, as nobody by that name exists.
He did turn out for Quins a few times, just a few, now working in law somewhere
-
💰 💰 💰💰 good luck to him, a loss to rugby union and hopefully he might return someday after he has made some decent money if that is the reason for him leaving. The loss of Welsh players playing in the Wales is a big problem and hopefully the same doesn’t happen in England. I think there is a big problem with the salary cap for all home nations teams that needs to be addressed asap.
-
Lillian S. Cowhands-Romanticist
-
I can only assume this is a lie, as nobody by that name exists.
If only there was an easy way to check...
-
This is what Christian Scotland-Williamson did, lasted four years on practice squads before coming back.
Players can and do stick on the pathway. The most high profile one was a guy called Jordan Mailata who is now one of the best in his position. He’s 6’9 and 150kg plus! Difference is that he went over at 20 and had only played “A” team equivalent rugby league in the NRL in Australia. Nowhere near the history LRZ has and much more malleable.
There are others, but they’re lower profile. One guy is coaching now I think though so people do get full careers over there and not come back.
LRZ is the age that players get drafted into that league at, so it’s prime time for him to work over there for 3-4 years and come back if he never transitions fully. Profiles as a wide receiver most likely. Think Wade played running back rather than receiver despite being a winger on the rugby pitch.
I can only assume this is a lie, as nobody by that name exists.
-
I don't know what sort of figures the squad players earn, but using the superstars as a metric, he'll earn much more in NFL than he ever would in rugby. I hope it works out for him.
-
Also, if he tries it for 18 months to 2 years and it doesn't work out, he can be back in time for the next World Cup.
-
Good decision by him. With all the issues Welsh rugby is going through at the moment, it will be a breath of fresh air. Nice payday, and if it dosen't work out in a few years, he will know he will have his pick of clubs anyway, by which point things might have calmed down internationally too.
-
It won’t work like it didn’t for Wade, but as above, he’ll get some money.
He won’t play any sport mind you.
He also needs to weigh about three stone more if his height on Wikipedia is accurate….
-
This is what Christian Scotland-Williamson did, lasted four years on practice squads before coming back.
Players can and do stick on the pathway. The most high profile one was a guy called Jordan Mailata who is now one of the best in his position. He’s 6’9 and 150kg plus! Difference is that he went over at 20 and had only played “A” team equivalent rugby league in the NRL in Australia. Nowhere near the history LRZ has and much more malleable.
There are others, but they’re lower profile. One guy is coaching now I think though so people do get full careers over there and not come back.
LRZ is the age that players get drafted into that league at, so it’s prime time for him to work over there for 3-4 years and come back if he never transitions fully. Profiles as a wide receiver most likely. Think Wade played running back rather than receiver despite being a winger on the rugby pitch.
-
Good luck to him!
-
Interesting! A quick search suggests that no rugby player who has played at a senior level has been successful in the NFL. There are a couple of Māoris, David Dixon and Riki Ellison, but they both went through the American college system.
-
Gloucester are rubbish at the moment. Welsh club rugby is broken. 2-3 years guaranteed good wage. If it works out, big money on the cards. If it doesn't, he can resume his career at 24/25 and have another 5-8 years in his prime
-
I suppose he is young enough compared to Wade, who tried it later in his career to make it a success.
However, I expect him to never get out of the practice squads.
Saying that he will make much more money for playing virtually no competitive sport.
Good luck to him.
-
Just announced (https://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/content/louis-rees-zammit-to-join-nfl-international-player-pathway) that Louis Rees-Zammit has an immediate release from Gloucester to try out for the NFL International Player Pathway. That's going to hurt both Gloucs and Wales!