ComeAllWithin

Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Gone on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 17:23*

Title: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Gone on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 17:23*
Walking home past fans wanging on about a great win feeling like Iím trapped in a parallel universe.

We were dreadful after the first 20 mins and shipped 33 points to a team challenging for relegation.

Ward is a liability and the sooner heís gone the better.

Assume Gustard will not be impressed.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 17:51*
Yes, parallel universe. 5 points against a team we have struggled against and offer no threat to us. Stuff to work on sure, but job done.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 17:52*
Yes, parallel universe. 5 points against a team we have struggled against and offer no threat to us. Stuff to work on sure, but job done.

Yeah I get job done but the defence was embarrassing. Any other side would have killed us.

Sitting there was awful. We offered nothing after 25 mins.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 17:58*
Quins scored 21 points in the first 25 minutes.

They finished the match having scored 47 points, having added four more tries.

"offered nothing" sounds like it's completely wrong to me
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: honkytonk on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:13*
I can see it from both sides.  Game was won after the first 20.  After that we cruised a bit.  We had more in the tank if needed.  From the other side, I get the feeling PG will not be over the moon about that.  I dont think he will be happy we took our foot off the gas.  Compare to sides like Sarries, they would have kept their foot on the throat.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: InsertQuinsPunHere on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:14*
Disappointed that Worcester left with a try bonus point, but it was a high scoring weekend, let alone match, and we chalked up a decent score and plenty of tries. At no point did we look like losing. It's probably more difficult to keep focused in that situation, especially when you have the sort of start we did.

We won. With a high score, and a bonus point. Plenty to work on, but I think you need to think of the glass as half full... We'd have contrived to lose that last season!

COYQ!
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Scamble on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:20*
We lost the final 60 minutes 33-26

Hmmm
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Fursty on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:23*
Could be a good thing that we lost the 2nd half - plenty of motivation for firing up the team for next weekend.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: raedarius on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:34*
Worcester demonstrated their credentials as a team that can beat any other team with fourteen players.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:35*
In the big scheme of things, we won with a TBP. From the league perspective we couldn't have done better, bar improving the points difference.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Famosb on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:37*
Well I had a cracking afternoon. Loads of tries, some great tackles and almost no boring scrum resets. We never looked like losing so didnít mind them scoring. Their last try was a thing of beauty, so all in all, great way to spend a day.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: MightyQ2 on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:46*
Agreed about Ward. Saw Crumpton throw up soon as he came off so possibly he was unwell rather than a tactical change.

Agreed defence needs work today, gabs defence was terrible! Itís like he just watches the other lads tackle and lets them run past him!
Other than that, Iím happy. We needed a win and we got one. Onto Bristol now...
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 18:51*
Donít get me wrong. BP win. But Gustard will be spitting as was I. Whole basis of the team was this new defence and it vanished. Ward abysmal, Gabs great going forward terrible going back. We were shocking for their tries - and they scored and scored and scored.

I get ďweíd wonĒ but thatís not what top 4 sides do and letting them score 33 is not good.

And having seen the video Gustard says as a defence coach heís not happy.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:06*
Loads to work on defensively. Can't be too annoyed having seen us put 7 tries past anyone though.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: guest598 on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:15*
Loads to work on defensively. Can't be too annoyed having seen us put 7 tries past anyone though.

Agree and regardless, after the Quinssa event on Tuesday I see a Monday morning chat coming.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: SiB on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:16*
7 tryís
3rd in the table
Against a team we often struggle against

Wasnít great but Abysmal? Do me a favour if we had lost we would have been down to 6th and that would have been bad
It was not perfect but it wasnít abysmal thatís for sure
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Jus-Quin-Time on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:22*
Saw Crumpton throw up soon as he came off so possibly he was unwell rather than a tactical change.

That's not good..I hope he was properly checked over. 

I recently read about the young French player who was vomiting post match.  His symptoms were ignored by those around him.  Sadly he was found dead next morning after suffering a brain bleed.  He had incurred a head injury during the game and the HIA protocols were not followed.   No correlation was made between the knock on the head and his vomiting.  The latter being a symptom of cerebral haemorrhage.   
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: quinalan on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:24*
Often dont agree with Blucher but I'm with him/her here. Havent been for a while & was really looking forward to today. But..... it was quite a strange afternoon, I didnt think Quins played very well at all, but I guess a win is win. Most of our points came from Worcester errors, we were deadly in scoring from them, but we removed feet from all pedals in the last 20 mins & we didnt exactly do that much in the first 20 either. The crowd were very quiet & subdued. It was a game of Prem Rugby wasnt it? I walked away thinking to myself, wonder if anyone else felt about the game the way I did? Save the performances for bigger games.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:27*
For those of us unable to be there, did anyone stand out as particularly good or bad? Ward has been mentioned a few times I can see.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: SiB on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:28*
Gussy said the following about the game
"To score that amount of tries with the conviction and variation in attack we did is very satisfying.

"But, as a defence coach I'm not too happy with how we leaked a few tries towards the end.

"We've just got to look at the next game and make sure we're motivated and prepared and make sure the plans we want to bring in can be implemented.

"It's all about bite size chunks at the moment, I'm not interested in the game after Bristol next week at present."
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: MightyQ2 on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:28*
Hopefully.
Thatís awful...
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: T-Bone on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:35*
Last 20 minutes were a farce. But we got a bonus win at home, Worcester aren't our rivals so while letting them have a bonus is annoying it shouldn't matter. I think the sloppy defence will actually be a good thing as I reckon gustard will give them a rocket. Personally very happy to be back at the stoop
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: simjam on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:47*
If we win 64-63 next week i will be happy with the 5 points.
Ok we were sloppy in the 2nd half but focus on how good the 1st half was.
Today the glass was not half full but 5 points full.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Matt72 on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 19:58*
Watching it felt like Quins were in control throughout the match. Early changes from Quins from 50 odd mins onwards changed it slightly. I felt our defence switched off a little at times being a couple of tries or more up. Nothing to worry about.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 20:05*
On a side note, I thought some of Worcesterís lazy running and obstruction was as blatant as Iíve seen in a while. I know everyone does it to an extent but I noticed them doing it a fair bit more than other teams have done so far this season.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: raedarius on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 20:09*
Leaving their flankers in the way to create a gap in our defence took place throughout the game and pretty much went un-penalised.  It also didn't work that well for them either.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Robertquin on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 23:06*
To me it looked like we lost interest after the bonus point try. I was expecting about 50/60 points and maybe 20 conceded as I couldn't see nothing being given away. That said, scoring nearly fifty and leaving the pitch with five points but feeling we could have done better is a great problem to have.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: The Absolute Quintet on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 23:15*
It was a bizarre afternoon. We had several players who could unlock them at will in the first 30 mins without any effort. We were away and done. Then they played deep and wide and found 3 on 1s that exposed us with Brown off and a winger that canít tackle. We were effectively 14 men in defence or less all match.
Said it before but Gabs is absolutely non existent in defence. His smiley face when he limped off at 75 mins made my blood boil. He has NOTHING to be proud of in that effort. Heís electric with the ball but his chicken defence is really winding me up.
Given the stellar defence his colleague at 13 puts in, heís not worthy of sharing the same changing room.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Rocker on Saturday 16-Feb-2019, 23:26*
Yes Gab's defence needs some serious work! It's a shame as he is extremely good going forward, but as my brother in law and I were discussing during the match that is the curse of the small winger, especially against a huge guy like Heem
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Bolly-Quin on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 00:20*
It wasn't just Ibitoye falling off tackles - quite a few of our "favourite" players did. Credit to Worcester - they targeted Gabs all day with aerial stuff and attacking his flank - and it worked - sometime when we were a man short and sometimes when we had a full contingent. A couple of lucky bounces and the first half may have been different.

Gus should be worried about the defence. Second half wasn't good - but we did enough generally but plenty of room for improvement against Bristol before we play Bath and Gloucester. And to finish in top 4, we'll need to win all of those games, and a few more.

Great to see our back row turning over; not great to see two opportunities to score wasted by bad line out throws in second half...

Top 6 a minimum from here on in?
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: ACQuins on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 02:12*
I actually thought in the air, Gabs was absolutely fine. It was just when he was defending one on one against a big chap, e.g. Heam, that he struggled.

One of the things that annoyed the stats side of me is that we had absolutely no handling errors the entire match until Ward came on, and then we ended up on 2 - both by Ward.

Apart from that, our attack was absolutely clinical, but the defence did get the blood pressure up a bit.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: alexfromlondon on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 07:25*
Strange things happen in high scoring games especially when the game appeared won so early on.

Just compare and contrast to the away game at Worcester earlier in the season. I know which Iíd prefer.

Thereís probably stuff to learn from the game as always, but Iíd say the result really wasnít ever in doubt!

Letís try and enjoy this position and maybe perhaps we can finally let the ghost of relegation go this year....Surely not going to happen now (jeez I donít want to jinx it!)?
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Quins Head on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 07:36*
3rd in the table winning with bonus points and some still whine wow just wow
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Zandini on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 08:10*
I like this forum - lots of people add really incisive comments. This, however, is embarrassing clickbate. ĎAbysmalí?  Watch another team Bulcher. Join another forum.

Lots of great rugby. Yes defence was weak in second half especially, but so much to have enjoyed yesterday afternoon. Celebrate that.

I have no idea why people love to revel in negativity. 
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 08:18*
For those of us unable to be there, did anyone stand out as particularly good or bad? Ward has been mentioned a few times I can see.

Ward was appalling.

Dombrandt good carries, Robshaw looked like he just needs a bit more game time, Care, Marchant, Earle v good. Gabs great going forward but really is bad going back. He canít appear to tackle - seems to try to arm fend people, maybe heís trying to rip the ball every tome? Either way it doesnít work.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 08:24*
3rd in the table winning with bonus points and some still whine wow just wow

ďJust wowĒ - really? I doubt youíre 21 and this ainít social media.

We lost the second half to a poor team and let them score 33 points. Show me another top 4 side that did that yesterday.

Saints put 67 over Sale, who scored 17.
Bath beat Newcastle 30-13.

No second half foot off the pedal for them.

So I may have been a bit drunk when I chose the word abysmal but spare me the idea that thereís nothing to criticise.


Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 08:34*
I like this forum - lots of people add really incisive comments. This, however, is embarrassing clickbate. ĎAbysmalí?  Watch another team Bulcher. Join another forum.

Lots of great rugby. Yes defence was weak in second half especially, but so much to have enjoyed yesterday afternoon. Celebrate that.

I have no idea why people love to revel in negativity.


Isnít this confused.

If itís click bait (which it clearly is) then youíve just responded to it, so your high horse has bolted.

You go watch another team or post somewhere else - donít be so bloody rude.
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: QuinKong on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 08:58*
Isnít this confused.

If itís click bait (which it clearly is) then youíve just responded to it, so your high horse has bolted.

You go watch another team or post somewhere else - donít be so bloody rude.

Blucherquin - THE KEYBOARD WARRIOR STILL HIDING BEHIND A SCREEN!
Title: Re: Abysmal afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 09:27*
Blucherquin - THE KEYBOARD WARRIOR STILL HIDING BEHIND A SCREEN!

Iím confused. I asked someone not to be rude and repeated their words back to them. That makes him the ďkeyboard warriorĒ doesnít it?

You coventiently didnít quote or didnít read the full post which told me I should go and support another team or post on another forum because I found our second half performance was awful.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 09:37*
Since people are getting angry because people disagree with them, let me try another tack here.

This was a victory during the Gustard era in which we are building what looks like a great side and have had an improving defence - all be it with some continuing examples of poor defence right up until the Exeter win.

Yesterdayís win felt far more like a win from the previous two years when weíd turn on the attack and manage a rare win - that was papering over all the issues and made those of us who werenít anti JK think ďmaybe.Ē

If that win had come in the JK era I doubt Iíd be alone in being very concerned at our defensive performance.

It went notably backwards yesterday from where it has been recently - and a team better than Worcs would have beaten us.

Yesterdayís results:

Saints 67 Sale 17
Bath 30 Newcastle 13

In that context Iím concerned.

Bears will be a tougher prospect and Glos even more so - and these games will define our season.

Decent wins and itís the playoffs - but defend like that second half (which we lost) and it wonít.

So yes, Iím happy we won - but no, I donít think it was great.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: SiB on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 09:57*
Agreed itís wasnt great, itís was a good win against a side we have struggled against
But it wasnít abysmal, had we been beaten after building such a good lead that would have been
It also gave us 3rd place back
Need to improve defence thatís for sure,


But letís be honest at the end of last season had anyone said we would be 3rd after 13 rounds I donít think anyone would have been taken seriously
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: honkytonk on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 10:10*
Sounds silly to say but we suffered for the fast start. Almost victims of our own success.  Game was done and dusted after 20 mins.  After that we took our foot off the gas.  Taking that one way, we had plenty in the tank and would have stepped it up if needed.  Taking it the other way, I expect PG to be less than happy that we did no go for the 80 and beast them.  Despite the win, I can see him taking issue with that, so I get where BQ is coming from.  Saints played very well and did not let up.  Baths game was a bit more of a battle so I don't think they really had the chance to take their foot off the gas.  Going forward, this could be a blessing in disguise as it gives PG a point to refer to.  Yes we are doing well but lets not forget how we lost it a little against Worcs and let our defence drop.   About keeping standards up.  That is what will get PG
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 10:18*
Agreed itís wasnt great, itís was a good win against a side we have struggled against
But it wasnít abysmal, had we been beaten after building such a good lead that would have been
It also gave us 3rd place back
Need to improve defence thatís for sure,


But letís be honest at the end of last season had anyone said we would be 3rd after 13 rounds I donít think anyone would have been taken seriously

I did point out I was pissed and abysmal was the wrong word.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: QuinKong on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 10:31*
I did point out I was pissed and abysmal was the wrong word.

Ah Bless!
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 11:30*
Stats have Ibitoye making 5 tackles and missing 1. Brown made 3 missed 3.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Quin Kong on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 11:32*
Please be aware that our old troll appears to be back and using a variant of my name.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Bolly-Quin on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 12:03*
Stats have Ibitoye making 5 tackles and missing 1. Brown made 3 missed 3.

Interesting - I thought he missed more than that - I wonder if it includes occasions when he got nowhere near the attacker and didnít manage a tackle when he should have? Perhaps Iím being harsh...
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Dibden on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 15:49*
A game of basketball rugby to me.Very entertaining but very loose.However shipping 5 tries at home to 11th placed side is poor by anyoneís standards.Felt Gussieís comments too generous
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 16:13*
Interesting - I thought he missed more than that - I wonder if it includes occasions when he got nowhere near the attacker and didnít manage a tackle when he should have? Perhaps Iím being harsh...

Im surprised two. Weíre in east stand and watched him miss two in first 20 mins.

He stands upright (out of position) and seems to shove/try to rip ball but all that happens is he gets turned inside out.

As you say, maybe they arenít enough of a tackle to count? Either way he should be superb but really needs to work on his defence.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: QuinKong on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 16:13*
Silence of the quins fans said it all.

Not going any further up with 5 points from 6th in the table and only single points down from there.

PG only looking at EJ's job
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: A222Quin on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 16:55*
Silence of the quins fans said it all.

Not going any further up with 5 points from 6th in the table and only single points down from there.

PG only looking at EJ's job

Were we meant to take more than 5 points from the game?
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: Gone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 18:19*
Silence of the quins fans said it all.

Not going any further up with 5 points from 6th in the table and only single points down from there.

PG only looking at EJ's job

Hey troll howís the new name going? V happy to have you back.
Title: Re: Abysmal (ok wrong word but I was drunk) afternoon against relegation fodder
Post by: T-Bone on Sunday 17-Feb-2019, 21:21*
Watching replay now. Pearce's reasoning before their first try is laughable.

Criticism of brown's defence equally risible.

Conceding so many points annoying but if it means we're not complacent next week or in the Euro 1/4 then happy days
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Quinston Churchill on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 08:55*
Just managed to catch the extended highlights (didnít want to comment without seeing some of it for myself).

I think context is important. Weíd effectively had a month off so I think there was almost certainly an element of rustiness. The defence didnít look great, but reading through the thread, Worcester havenít been given a great deal of credit. Some of their tries were very good (Adamsí in particular) and where as much to do with a good attack and quality offloading as they were with our defence.

PGís had our defence working really well up until now, so Iíd back him to fix it pretty quickly. As others have said, this is effectively an ideal opportunity for him to b*llock the team in a situation where we still managed to pick up 5 points.

One question - it looked like Dombrandt and Smith went off early 50 something minutes in. Is it coincidence that we got worse after they went off or not?
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: guest602 on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 09:26*
Extended Highlights ...

https://sport.bt.com/video/extended-highlights-harlequins-47-33-worcester-warriors-91364337060862
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Chipstead Quin on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 09:40*
No doubt some poor defensive sets , but they scored 3 tries when we were down to 14  - and I don't think Ive seen such an explosive runner as Adams in a long time , credit to Worcester because Ollie Lawrence and Heem had good games and looked for space at every opportunity just didn't find it with Mike Brown on the field .

I think we relaxed after the first half , lots of early SH changes and although always in control didn't have the same cohesion in the 2nd 40 .

Danny Care and Marcus Smith were targeted by Wuss forwards who ran straight at them at every opportunity , which is fair enough , but I think its why Marcus was changed early for Lang .

I thought Clifford , Symons , Brown and Robshaw played really well

We really need to make sure we reduce space out wide when we meet them at Sixways - agree with the comments about Gab , his defence isn't up to scratch - hopefully we will see Murley back .
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: honkytonk on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 09:44*
or Visser
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Quinston Churchill on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 10:03*
No doubt some poor defensive sets , but they scored 3 tries when we were down to 14  - and I don't think Ive seen such an explosive runner as Adams in a long time , credit to Worcester because Ollie Lawrence and Heem had good games and looked for space at every opportunity just didn't find it with Mike Brown on the field .

I think we relaxed after the first half , lots of early SH changes and although always in control didn't have the same cohesion in the 2nd 40 .

Danny Care and Marcus Smith were targeted by Wuss forwards who ran straight at them at every opportunity , which is fair enough , but I think its why Marcus was changed early for Lang .

I thought Clifford , Symons , Brown and Robshaw played really well

We really need to make sure we reduce space out wide when we meet them at Sixways - agree with the comments about Gab , his defence isn't up to scratch - hopefully we will see Murley back .

Weíve already played hem at Sixways (and lost). It was the game where Ryan Mills has a very dodgy try given.

Adams is a quality player and Lawrence has looked excellent whenever Iíve seen him play - a future England 13 in the making and good competition for Marchant!
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Fearless Fred on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 10:12*
Weíve already played hem at Sixways (and lost). It was the game where Ryan Mills has a very dodgy try given.

Adams is a quality player and Lawrence has looked excellent whenever Iíve seen him play - a future England 13 in the making and good competition for Marchant!

I think CQ may be referring to the European Quarter Final at the end of March...
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Cookie on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 10:41*
I think some are underestimating the quality of the Worcester backs. Their backline of Hougaard, Weir, Mills, Venter, Adams, Heem and Pennell is up their with the best back divisions in the country. They were always going to be dangerous against tired legs. And their tries were out of the top drawer.

Only Northampton and Wasps (only by 2) have scored more tries than them outside the top 4.

Furthermore, the bookies only had us to win by 8 and we won by 14.

Not saying everything was perfect, but I'm not getting down on a BP win, regardless of who it was against and how many points we conceded. Worcester are far better than their league position suggests.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: rdc on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 10:41*
Just managed to catch the extended highlights (didnít want to comment without seeing some of it for myself).

I think context is important. Weíd effectively had a month off so I think there was almost certainly an element of rustiness. The defence didnít look great, but reading through the thread, Worcester havenít been given a great deal of credit. Some of their tries were very good (Adamsí in particular) and where as much to do with a good attack and quality offloading as they were with our defence.

PGís had our defence working really well up until now, so Iíd back him to fix it pretty quickly. As others have said, this is effectively an ideal opportunity for him to b*llock the team in a situation where we still managed to pick up 5 points.

One question - it looked like Dombrandt and Smith went off early 50 something minutes in. Is it coincidence that we got worse after they went off or not?

Iíve also only seen the extended highlights, but absolutely agree that Worcester scored some classy tries with 1st class offloading.

We should have defended better, but, letís give them some credit.   We will know much more next week.  Iím still feeling good.  Very few of us expected us to be realistically hoping to make top 4 this season
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Quinston Churchill on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 11:14*
The next few weeks are huge for us.

We canít afford to be complacent, but we are definitely capable of picking up another bonus point win over Bristol. Bath at the Rec will be a tougher proposition, but if weíre going to start winning on the road, we need to be beating our immediate competition.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Safri-quin on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 11:39*
The next few weeks are huge for us.

We canít afford to be complacent, but we are definitely capable of picking up another bonus point win over Bristol. Bath at the Rec will be a tougher proposition, but if weíre going to start winning on the road, we need to be beating our immediate competition.

At event last week, PG seemed to be focussing on winning all home games, and viewed picking up bonus points on the road, as acceptable at the moment.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 11:53*
I was watching Gabs very closely in defence all game, as I too have been concerned, but I actually thought he was much-improved. Sure, maybe that's not saying much, but I thought if anything that Earle was worse than Gabs in defence yesterday - got absolutely skinned on a couple of occasions. He reminds me a bit of Ugo - his top-end, straight-line pace is great, but it takes him sooo long to get going. I don't know how much acceleration you can 'add' in training but it's one thing I feel he needs to work on. Don't get me wrong, he's still our best all-round winger - I'd just love to see him be able to fly off the mark. It let him down yesterday.

Overall, though, I left The Stoop feeling a bit disappointed (not quite as intensely as Blucher) that it definitely felt like a step backwards defensively. It doesn't really matter how great Worcester's backs are supposed to be - we looked ropey from the off. However, we got away with it and I'm happy to chalk it up as a one-off rusty game after a long period without any serious competitive game time for most of those guys. Maybe letting them go off on holiday backfired slightly? Either way, I expect Gussy to give them a right kick up the derriere in training this week and hopefully we won't see that again...
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Gone on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 12:23*
It's that step back that got me so annoyed and worried.

And because our group all said at half time that we can't let our foot off and that if we're turning into a good side we'll punish them now and not let them back on the scoreboard barring the odd penalty - then the deluge...

Anyway can't wait for Saturday. Harder team to get a TBP against but here's hoping.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: Quinky on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 13:25*
Just watched the highlights. Some nice offloading play by Worcester. Have to say though - Gabs has got some serious acceleration.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: dittonquin on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 13:44*
I was watching Gabs very closely in defence all game, as I too have been concerned, but I actually thought he was much-improved. Sure, maybe that's not saying much, but I thought if anything that Earle was worse than Gabs in defence yesterday - got absolutely skinned on a couple of occasions. He reminds me a bit of Ugo - his top-end, straight-line pace is great, but it takes him sooo long to get going. I don't know how much acceleration you can 'add' in training but it's one thing I feel he needs to work on. Don't get me wrong, he's still our best all-round winger - I'd just love to see him be able to fly off the mark. It let him down yesterday.

Overall, though, I left The Stoop feeling a bit disappointed (not quite as intensely as Blucher) that it definitely felt like a step backwards defensively. It doesn't really matter how great Worcester's backs are supposed to be - we looked ropey from the off. However, we got away with it and I'm happy to chalk it up as a one-off rusty game after a long period without any serious competitive game time for most of those guys. Maybe letting them go off on holiday backfired slightly? Either way, I expect Gussy to give them a right kick up the derriere in training this week and hopefully we won't see that again...

Agree with this, Tom. Nothing Gabs could do for the disallowed try in the first half as it was 2 on 1. The first Heem try Quins then didn't get the numbers right and again left him 2 on 1. Their 4th try I think was mainly caused by Boyce slipping off the tackle which then allowed them to break through. After that they had men over and Gabs was again stranded. I do think he doesn't fully commit to the tackle sometimes and that's a bit of a worry but hopefully that can be worked on.

In contrast on the 5th try Earle didn't do enough to get back to Adams and was too easily handed off. There was a similar incident earlier in the second half where as you say Earle took ages to get up to full speed and only just got back to Adams.

I had the same feeling of a really poor finish when leaving the ground but when watching things back I think Worcester just threw caution to the wind a lot in the second half and some risky offloads worked out for them on two of the tries when on other occasions the ball might have gone down. That was then compounded by Quins falling off a couple of key tackles. Hopefully the strong finish from Worcs means they'll be on it for next weekend.

Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: never sleep on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 15:56*
I think that you get this sort of thing when a team targets a losing bonus point instead of a win.
Basically, their mindset was probably - don't care about defence or letting in tries.  Just concentrate on getting 4 tries. 

When Taps scored, I thought it looked a bit too easy.  But Worcs may have thought - let them score and then get the ball quickly down the other end.
Title: Re: Terrible 2nd half defence against relegation fodder (better?)
Post by: raedarius on Monday 18-Feb-2019, 22:05*
Two Worcester tries were while we were down to 14 men.  The first Worcester try was while we were on a warning that the next red zone infringement was going to be a card (IIRC), so I can understand that one.  I don't get why defenders don't keep running and try to drive the potential try scorer off the back of the pitch though.