ComeAllWithin

Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Gone on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:39*

Title: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 09:39*
This could have gone under the Marler Hero thread but since there were a couple of people doubting that hating gays is incompatible with rugby values....Folau has been sacked.

"Rugby Australia and the New South Wales Rugby Union have made repeated attempts to contact Israel both directly and via his representatives since 6.30pm on Wednesday, and at this point he has failed to communicate directly with either organisation.

"Whilst Israel is entitled to his religious beliefs, the way in which he has expressed these beliefs is inconsistent with the values of the sport. We want to make it clear that he does not speak for the game with his recent social media posts.

"Israel has failed to understand that the expectation of him as a Rugby Australia and NSW Waratahs employee is that he cannot share material on social media that condemns, vilifies or discriminates against people on the basis of their sexuality.

"Rugby is a sport that continuously works to unite people. We want everyone to feel safe and welcome in our game and no vilification based on race, gender, religion or sexuality is acceptable and no language that isolates, divides or insults people based on any of those factors can be tolerated.   

"As a code we have made it clear to Israel formally and repeatedly that any social media posts or commentary that is in any way disrespectful to people because of their sexuality will result in disciplinary action. "In the absence of compelling mitigating factors, it is our intention to terminate his contract."
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:01*
Good. See you in Hell, Issy  ;D
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: MightyQ2 on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:03*
Great to see this, I was doubtful considering it’s a RWC year but good on them! Values have to come first...
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Twickersman on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:27*
I am a supporter of free speech, he is entitled to his own opinion, it is not breaking the law. But it looks very bad in the inclusive rugby community and to pretty much everyone in society, bar the odd religious zealot.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Toulon put in a megabucks bid for him.



Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:41*
"I am a supporter of free speech" is fine in itself and up to a limit. In this context it is a cop-out and you become complicit in the harm Folau's views can do (and probably are doing/already have done). To quote poorfour from the other thread:

Not all rights are equal. Your right not to be offended, or to say whatever you want is less important than someone else's right to freedom from harassment and discrimination. When two people's rights come into conflict,  humane societies determine precedence by looking at which option causes the least overall harm.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:50*
I am a supporter of free speech, he is entitled to his own opinion, it is not breaking the law. But it looks very bad in the inclusive rugby community and to pretty much everyone in society, bar the odd religious zealot.

I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Toulon put in a megabucks bid for him.

As the statement says, it's nothing to do with his beliefs or opinions, it's that rugby doesn't believe in hating gay people. So he'll have to go somewhere that it's ok.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 10:52*
That better not be Quins is all I'll say. I know Mike's getting on now but unthink it Gussy. UNTHINK IT.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: honkytonk on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 12:22*
Id bet France
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 12:24*
Yup, or maybe Japan...
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Quinky on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 13:27*
As the statement says, it's nothing to do with his beliefs or opinions, it's that rugby doesn't believe in hating gay people. So he'll have to go somewhere that it's ok.

You can't stop people hating anyone or anything. The only thing you can do is to unravel why they feel that hate, and hope that the reasons can be undone.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: A222Quin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 13:30*
He can hate them if he wants for his own misguided ways... He just shouldn't as a rugby player and employee of NSW and The Wallabies put that all over his social media outlets.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Quinky on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 13:48*
He can hate them if he wants for his own misguided ways... He just shouldn't as a rugby player and employee of NSW and The Wallabies put that all over his social media outlets.

That would depend on his contract. It may say that he can't do so. If it doesn't, then his former employers may be on dodgy ground.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 15:50*
That would depend on his contract. It may say that he can't do so. If it doesn't, then his former employers may be on dodgy ground.

“As a code we have made it clear to Israel formally and repeatedly that any social media posts or commentary that is in any way disrespectful to people because of their sexuality will result in disciplinary action.

“In the absence of compelling mitigating factors, it is our intention to terminate his contract.”
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: A222Quin on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 15:51*
That would depend on his contract. It may say that he can't do so. If it doesn't, then his former employers may be on dodgy ground.

That's why I said it. It is in the terms of his contract as Blucher has illustrated.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Fursty on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 16:46*
You can't stop people hating anyone or anything. The only thing you can do is to unravel why they feel that hate, and hope that the reasons can be undone.

Actually the sad reality is that in most cases all you can do is wait for them to die and hope the next generation is more tolerant.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Steevo on Thursday 11-Apr-2019, 22:50*
Actually the sad reality is that in most cases all you can do is wait for them to die and hope the next generation is more tolerant.

*cough*Brexit*cough*
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 10:26*
You can't stop people hating anyone or anything. The only thing you can do is to unravel why they feel that hate, and hope that the reasons can be undone.

Ah, Confucious, he say......
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: poorfour on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:19*
*cough*Brexit*cough*

Yeah, but a week is a long time in politics, so the next generation is about 6 months in Westminster time.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Quinky on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:29*
Yeah, but a week is a long time in politics, so the next generation is about 6 months in Westminster time.

Whenever I hear millennials speaking on a subject they want to appear knowledgeable about, I dread the next generation taking power...
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: dr_miles on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:31*
Whenever I hear millennials speaking on a subject they want to appear knowledgeable about, I dread the next generation taking power...

And what do you think they hear when you speak?
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Quinky on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:39*
And what do you think they hear when you speak?

Millennials I've don't seem to listen - they think they know everything already.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: TomBuckQuin on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 14:43*
Millennials I've don't seem to listen - they think they know everything already.

I'm a millennial... Okay I take your point.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:02*
Whenever I hear millennials speaking on a subject they want to appear knowledgeable about, I dread the next generation taking power...

As opposed to the generation currently in their 50 and 60s who are smashing it day in day out in Westminster?
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Mr_B on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:11*
Dont agree with any thing he's said but it is interesting, Now Vinupola has come out with a defence of it stating its his religion, I find it all very distasteful and why I dont like religions so does Vinupola now get a punishment? Is stating his belief = to Hate?
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: poorfour on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 15:15*
Dont agree with any thing he's said but it is interesting, Now Vinupola has come out with a defence of it stating its his religion, I find it all very distasteful and why I dont like religions so does Vinupola now get a punishment? Is stating his belief = to Hate?

Vunipola has said something idiotic, but he's not said that gay people will burn in hell. I think there is a difference, though it's a pretty marginal one. It will be interesting to see how the RFU reacts. And how Joe reacts, for that matter.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Quinky on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 16:43*
As opposed to the generation currently in their 50 and 60s who are smashing it day in day out in Westminster?

Oh how I wish Westminster personnel were representative of real people, instead of just (claiming to) represent them...
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 20:22*
Oh how I wish Westminster personnel were representative of real people, instead of just (claiming to) represent them...

They literally represent them. You vote for them.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Hellequin on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 20:53*
Pretty much a choice off picking the least worst most of the time, rather than someone you would actually want to represent you.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Rocker on Friday 12-Apr-2019, 21:49*
You know what. I think that we should not discuss religion or politics on this board. It is just too divisive.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 09:19*
No its not.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Fearless Fred on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 09:25*
No its not.

I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Domestos on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 09:56*
I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half hour?

That isn't an argument.

It is a rebuttal, or a contradiction.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 10:13*
Hilarious. Re Butt all.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Matt72 on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 16:16*
There's no hatred towards gays on my part. I just believe its wrong. People should have the right to freedom of speech. God bless you Folau.
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Gone on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 17:57*
There's no hatred towards gays on my part. I just believe its wrong. People should have the right to freedom of speech. God bless you Folau.

He has that right indeed - that’s why he’s been sacked. He’s free to say anything he wants. But he breached his employers code of conduct.

(Also on a related not Quins support gay rights and equality).
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: T-Bone on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 19:39*
This thread is a classic example of why I asked for it to be moved to the non rugby page

According to admit this is all about core rugby values though
Title: Re: Folau Sacked
Post by: Rocker on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 22:09*
I agree T-Bone OT