ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Gone on Friday 09-Aug-2019, 11:48*
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I have given up pretending I know rugby because apparently it's the perfect time to test an ancient scrum half with no international experience and previous success in club rugby based on appearances from the bench...but delighted for Marchant, will be there to hopefully see him win his first cap.
England starting XV
15 Elliot Daly (Saracens, 30 caps)
14 Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
12 Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
11 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps) C
9 Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped) VC
1 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
2 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 58 caps)
5 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
6 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 10 caps)
7 Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 9 caps) VC
8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 41 caps)
Finishers
16 Jack Singleton (Saracens, uncapped)
17 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 59 caps)
18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps)
19 George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps)
20 Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
21 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
22 Joe Marchant (Harlequins, uncapped)
23 Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
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That is a pretty underwhelming team.
Good luck to Joe and Jow though
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That is a pretty underwhelming team.
Good luck to Joe and Jow though
Personally a bit annoyed coz clearly a reserve side to test fringe players and I'd hoped to get my money's worth from the game. But if you aren't going to give the "maybe" players a chance now then when....the Heinz thing though is just ridiculous.
Jones and Care should have thrashed out whatever happened between them. DC was on fire last season. All too late now.
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Was just telling a work mate, I don't understand Eddie Jones any more. I hope this is some cunning plan that I'm just too thick to see.
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The Heinz thing is incomprehensible.
He's a journeyman at the end of his career. Decent player but not stellar.
We've had 4 years to test out scrum halves, we thought we knew who was going in place of Care but then he dropped them both after barely any games.
So now we may well have a bloke who will have about 100 mins of international rugby experience as our replacement 9 at a World Cup.
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Was DC on fire last season? For me, he was wholly inconsistent for Quins and - in the limited England game time that he had, he was poor.
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I'd say care had a really good season until he got injured
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When I saw this teamsheet I finally gave into the fact that there just is no understanding Eddie Jones.
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EJ has won 16 of 18 games as part of the coaching set up across 3 World Cups. Have faith my brothers and sisters....
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Quite, Deadly.
The reaction to the squad is, in my view, ridiculous.
If England don't make AT LEAST the semi finals, I will be very surprised.
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I'm less concerned what Eddie has done with completely different groups of players with completely different cultural mentalities at completely different times and against completely different opposition. I'm concerned about what he's done with England's players - particularly over the last couple of years, which has been inconsistent to say the least.
Not to be pessimistic but I'll be pleasantly surprised and will gladly admit that I was wrong about Eddie if this England squad end up in the final. Okay, I'm pessimistic.
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Quite, Deadly.
The reaction to the squad is, in my view, ridiculous.
If England don't make AT LEAST the semi finals, I will be very surprised.
They haven't announced the squad. And most of the reaction is from people who only watch rugby twice a year and think Goode, Wade and Kvesik are international standard players.
But I simply do not understand Heinz at all. Someone needs to explain how you decide to drop Care (fair enough if that's what happens) then you give a couple of other players no time at all, then you ditch them both with three matches until the World Cup and bring in....someone with no particular track record beyond being a club standard starting 9.
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Who covers 10 if Capt Ford gets injured ? Wales back row will be all over him .
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If Ford gets injured, Slade moves to 10.
It's a warm up game - the side put out is nothing like the 15 we will see in the WC
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If Ford gets injured, Slade moves to 10.
It's a warm up game - the side put out is nothing like the 15 we will see in the WC
Indeed, and anyone reacting with outrage across the broader side being played for this specific match doesn't know much about rugby.
But the Heinz and Francis stuff is just incomprehensible. They add nothing that the squad didn't have/has got, it doesn't fit with any tactic that I can work out - nor indeed many other people.
What type of rugby does this side reflect? Why are we going into yet another World Cup not knowing who is starting in the centres.
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Glad I have not gone to millennium stadium to see that lot play hopefully proper A team once he has sorted out and announced squad on Monday. He seems to be just concentrating on last few places on Sunday. Like everyone else just don’t get Heinz.
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What type of rugby does this side reflect? Why are we going into yet another World Cup not knowing who is starting in the centres.
This. Centre has been one of England's most unaddressed weaknesses since the end of Tindall/Greenwood for me. I actually think we've finally found a good partnership in 12 Tuilagi 13 Slade, but they haven't had a great number of games together and the most obvious backup centre in the event of an injury - Joseph - hasn't played much at all recently due to injury - let alone in an England shirt. He's also only played a handful of times with Tuilagi.
How, in any universe, is Piers Francis going to be the hero? Why have others not been given game time in spite of the fact that players like Marchant (and not just Marchant) have been performing out of their skins for multiple seasons?
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I thought the Ford, Farrell, Joseph line up was decent. And I reckon you could swap Daly for Joseph and have a similar line up.
Farrell, Tuilagi, Lozowski / Slade should work well too.
I get that the team for Sunday is not the final RWC squad and not anything like our starting line up in going to be, but as others have said, I still can't fathom the heinz and francis selections.
Surprised to see Ewels involved too. Is someone other than Kruis injured out of the usual 2nd row candidates?
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Francis is a mental trainer, a guy who is better than he should be, mentally going to super rugby and becoming a starter is to be admired. He is not as talented as others but has impressed me the. I have seen him play. He seems to want it a lot more than other players (Teo) and this is his opportunity.
Re Heinz I can only think that Jones wants an experienced old head a s a bench sitter. He doesn't have caps, but does bring an older head to the game.
Not my ideal 15, but it is a trial and one that will make some players and break others. Especially as Wales are playing a no 1 pack.
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Interesting consequence of Wallabies beating Allblacks is that if Wales win tomorrow they will go to number 1 in World rankings .
AB's have been number 1 for last 10 years !
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To my mind, Te'o was only ever there as a placeholder for Manu. Francis is there as a player who can competently cover 10-12-13 (as can Slade, at a pinch).
It is probably a bit of a shootout between Joseph and Marchant if there is an additional centre spot. Joseph has the experience, Marchant arrived a little later and was unlucky to be injured at the same time as JJ, but is very much in form and has an exceptional rugby brain for a young player.
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Late injury changes
Slade out ( knee) Joseph in
McConnachie out ( hip) Cokasinga in
Underhill out ( toe) Ludlam in
Tuilagi -Bench - Lawes Bench
Who knows if they are injuries or in response to the welsh selection .. looks a bit stronger though
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And so the injuries begin...
Joseph leapfrogs Marchant. Probably shows the ranking Eddie has them in - as expected really...
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Saw Eddie Jones in the restaurant "Prem" in Teddington last night. Didn't get a chance to talk to him. My korai lamb was lovely!
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Saw Eddie Jones in the restaurant "Prem" in Teddington last night. Didn't get a chance to talk to him. My korai lamb was lovely!
Twickenham Spice (Isleworth) and Raj of India (Shepherds Bush) can't be beaten for me. Will give it a crack next time I'm in Ted though!
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Twickenham Spice (Isleworth) and Raj of India (Shepherds Bush) can't be beaten for me. Will give it a crack next time I'm in Ted though!
Prem is the best. By far. It’s great - and they deliver.....
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Prem is the best. By far. It’s great - and they deliver.....
Anyone in Berkshire should try Haweli in Twyford. Awesome food, great value.
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Joe Marchant - ENGLAND INTERNATIONAL!
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Joe Marchant - ENGLAND PLAYER
A real shame it was for 55 seconds
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What was the point of putting him in the bench and give him a minute absolute joke
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A real shame it was for 55 seconds
which was longer Olly Kohn or Joe Marchant? At least Joe wasn’t injured but a real shame.
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Perhaps he qualifies for some cash by playing.
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Don’t know if the rules have changed but getting a cap used to get you 2 tickets to all future England games at Twickenham
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Well on the upside we know Heinz is a crock and not international standard. Ponderous, predictable, rubbish.
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Well on the upside we know Heinz is a crock and not international standard. Ponderous, predictable, rubbish.
I’m not his biggest fan but I thought he had an excellent first game and like the rest of the squad mostly got the basics right. His defence could use some work but hes a much safer pair of hands than Young’s and care especially as the flair element those two try to force has ended in farce in recent seasons. At 32 he’s not exactly a long term prospect but is certainly an option.
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I’m not his biggest fan but I thought he had an excellent first game and like the rest of the squad mostly got the basics right. His defence could use some work but hes a much safer pair of hands than Young’s and care especially as the flair element those two try to force has ended in farce in recent seasons. At 32 he’s not exactly a long term prospect but is certainly an option. Maybe but bad news for England rugby in the long term and devastating for all the scrum halves that have played their heart for last few years to parachute someone in just because they were born in NZ.
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Virtually a full house. That's good for the RFU coffers, they need the money.
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Virtually a full house. That's good for the RFU coffers, they need the money.
Even weirder crowd than normal, think a lot of non-regular fans in there which should be a good thing in terms of getting people to like rugby - but the general noise of chat through the game was ridiculous even by HQ standards.
And the broader crowd reaction to everything was weird too - they shrieked at every normal passage of play, and booed perfectly straightforward and correct ref decisions. It was all v odd. Fun day out but odd crowd.
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... they shrieked at every normal passage of play, and booed perfectly straightforward and correct ref decisions.
Sounds like the Stoop.
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I thought Heinz did ok, certainly didn't do too much wrong - but completely agree that parachuting 32 year old Kiwis (who could barely get a game in Super Rugby) into the squad sends all the wrong signals to young English players.
Thought Piers Francis showed all that he is capable of and so hopefully will be nowhere near the plane to Japan.
Ludlam played well and for me did enough to earn a spot.
But the real issue was Elliot Daly's defence, just flaps at tackles and for Wales 1st try he'd missed the tackle 5m beforehand - truly shocking positioning for what should have been a really straightforward tackle.