ComeAllWithin

Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: guest783 on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 11:56*

Title: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: guest783 on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 11:56*
https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/domestic-club-rugby-union/35117/harlequins-line-up-springboks-star-pieter-steph-du-toit-to-replace-robshaw/
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: honkytonk on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 12:03*
The bit that made me doubt this was the fact he is still under contract for next season, but then the following popped into my head.....

- If we buy out his contract does that also come out of the cap or not as he is coming from overseas??
- If the answer to the above is yes, if he were to join as a Marquee player, that would not matter as any payments regarding him are out of the cap (even a fee we would have to pay)??

Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: guest783 on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 12:08*
SaffaQuins!
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: poorfour on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 12:13*
Given the size of him, he is one of the few players in world rugby who could replace the Robshaws... It would be a superb signing and great for our EQP back rowers to learn from.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Pressie on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 12:33*
It seems that Louw was in contract for next year with the Stormers.  I am not sure if we paid for his release but potentially the same could apply to  du Toit. 
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: MadMax on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 14:34*
I'm sure he would be a great signing but do we really want to be the South African Harlequins?
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Quinky on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 14:41*
I'm sure he would be a great signing but do we really want to be the South African Harlequins?

If we get to sign players of that quality, I don't care where they come from! As long as they're not Welsh... (joke!)
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: stoquin on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 16:46*
Well he will be like the Robshaws, we get two, Peiter and Steph du Toit
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: The Quin Meister on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 17:24*
I'm sure he would be a great signing but do we really want to be the South African Harlequins?
No we don't want to be known as SA Harlequins. But he would be a great signing. Full stop. I don't mind having a few Boks in the squad, they generally have good mental attitude. And Wilco sounds a good signing too. But du Toit doesn't sound like a done deal to me. If he does come over to south west London though, he would need to be reminded that he follows in the illustrious footsteps of one former club captain and club legend, Andre Vos. Glad to see Gussy name checked him in his tribute to Robshaw. Vos brought Robbo through and showed him "how to put his head where it hurts." Hopefully, whoever replaces Robbo will do the same with one our our academy lads?
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 20:07*
Getting him in will be a massive statement of intent.

I think for next season a young but decent scrum half to push DC is actually the next most important thing. Landajo has improved but we need to build for the future
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Man From LA on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 20:50*
Quins have a way to go to catch up with Sale, they have (afaik) at least 9 Saffa's playing for them.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Quintessential on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 21:34*
I'm sure he would be a great signing but do we really want to be the South African Harlequins?

It's great to see the NZ partnership paying off with a steady flow of talent into the squad...from SA.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Fish Quin on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 22:20*
Ive quickly counted the number of South African players and the total number of non-English players by each club. This is just taken off Wikipedia, so take with a pinch of salt, but I didn’t notice any glaring errors:
Exeter 2/18
Sarries 2/11
Bath 1/9
Northampton 4/14
Sale 9/15
Gloucester 6/17
Bristol 1/19
Worcester 8/28
Wasps 3/14
Irish 3/28
Leicester 3/20
Quins 3/17

At a glance, I would say we don’t have to worry about becoming Known as SA Harlequins, we are very much in line with the bulk of the league. Sale, Gloucester and Worcester lead the way in South African players. Interestingly, Worcester and Irish have significantly more non-English players than the rest, probably because it’s cheaper. At the other end, big budget teams Sarries and Bath have the fewest non-English players as they don’t need to pinch the pennies.

I had a quick look at the Sarries squad from 2010 as a comparison on the South African numbers, and they had 8 full blown South Africans in their squad that season and a further 5 born in South Africa but declared for another nation.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: T-Bone on Thursday 13-Feb-2020, 22:53*
We've definitely moved away from being a club that prioritises English players and above call home grown. It's a bit of a shame but if the talent isn't there then it's silly to be loyal to an ideal that isn't working.

Similarly, as we have found out with Kyle and as sarries would have found out, there is not enough incentive to develop England internationals in terms of credit under the cap. I agree that sarries would have had a genuine grievance if they'd have lost their home grown England players due to the cap.

I do still like seeing academy players come through. For example, it's awesome seeing marler play for the lions when you've seen him first running out at imber court in the A league. Sadly clubs aren't properly incentivised to do so anymore. On a separate point, many clubs, quins included, have seemingly given up on the a league too, so you're more likely to see a load of guests running out that future England internationals.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Bolly-Quin on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 00:17*
It's now apparent why SA want to play in the 6 Nations - all their players are over here!
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: harlequins on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 09:05*
It's now apparent why SA want to play in the 6 Nations - all their players are over here!

This would mean though we would lose half the team!
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: number_seven on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 09:18*
Quins signing the world player of the year? Can't really see this happening, but would be great if we pulled it off.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Rocker on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 09:20*
South West London is a good place to be based if you're a Saffa plenty of biltong!
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: MadMax on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 11:32*
No we don't want to be known as SA Harlequins. But he would be a great signing. Full stop. I don't mind having a few Boks in the squad, they generally have good mental attitude. And Wilco sounds a good signing too. But du Toit doesn't sound like a done deal to me. If he does come over to south west London though, he would need to be reminded that he follows in the illustrious footsteps of one former club captain and club legend, Andre Vos. Glad to see Gussy name checked him in his tribute to Robshaw. Vos brought Robbo through and showed him "how to put his head where it hurts." Hopefully, whoever replaces Robbo will do the same with one our our academy lads?

I agree he would be a great signing and one or two SAffers would be fine. I just don't want us to be like Sale and be full of them.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 11:39*
If it was him then I'd be very happy to sign one more Saffa. Like number_seven though, I just can't see this happening. He could probably go to France and earn 50 to 100% more than we would probably pay him.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Yareet on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 11:56*
I agree he would be a great signing and one or two SAffers would be fine. I just don't want us to be like Sale and be full of them.

Alright I’ll defend my team.

Define “full”.

Out of the first team squad on the Sale site, 9 of 34 are Saffer - of whom I believe Ross is still an EQP.

Beyond that there are (I think) 4 non-EQPs. In total that’s 38%.

For comparison, Quins have 48 players in the senior squad of which there are 18 are non-EQPs (37.5%).

On balance therefore, I’m not sure Sale are anymore “full” of non-EQP players than Quins and certainly not “full” of Saffers.

By a quick count I also reckon that 9 of Sale's 34 are Academy products so we're just as "full" of Academy players as we are Saffers.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Mayor West on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 15:02*
I’m sure all the teams would be full of Aussies and Kiwis if they could still play for their countries while abroad.  Saffas are fine by me as they can play abroad and SA. If it’s within the rules what’s wrong with it.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Fish Quin on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 15:16*
For me the question isn’t how many SA or non EQP a club has, but whether these imports are taking the place of an EQP or not. For example, if we signed Pollard I would be disappointed as he would take game time away from Smith and Heron who are both good players at this level. With Louw I’m not bothered as I am sure we would have kept Sinckler if we could have afforded him and he wanted to stay, for whatever reason he isn’t staying and we don’t have a Young EQP tight head ready to step up, so we need to bring someone in. What nationality that player is doesn’t bother me. I like the fact that Quins, and generally all prem clubs, are good at bringing through young home grown talent where possible. It’s unrealistic to expect the whole squad to be from this route though.
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: Rocker on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 15:18*
Sensible way of looking at it Fish Quin 👍
Title: Re: Harlequins line up Springboks star Pieter-Steph du Toit to replace Robshaw
Post by: MadMax on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 17:30*
Alright I’ll defend my team.

Define “full”.

Out of the first team squad on the Sale site, 9 of 34 are Saffer - of whom I believe Ross is still an EQP.

Beyond that there are (I think) 4 non-EQPs. In total that’s 38%.

For comparison, Quins have 48 players in the senior squad of which there are 18 are non-EQPs (37.5%).

On balance therefore, I’m not sure Sale are anymore “full” of non-EQP players than Quins and certainly not “full” of Saffers.

By a quick count I also reckon that 9 of Sale's 34 are Academy products so we're just as "full" of Academy players as we are Saffers.

OK "full" is an exaggeration but at first glance last time out forty percent of the starting fifteen were SAffers which seems a pretty high percentage. It also seems to me that many of your key players are South African. Not there is anything wrong with this approach but I'd prefer my club to be based on and have more home players.