ComeAllWithin

Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: AdrianB on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 08:11*

Title: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: AdrianB on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 08:11*
https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/51497733

More than two-thirds of male rugby union players have heard team-mates use homophobic slurs in the past two weeks, says research backed by Harlequins.

The Premiership club and Australia's Monash University also found that 42% of male players surveyed have used such slurs themselves in the past fortnight.

Quins host London Irish on Saturday in an LGBTQ+ Pride-themed fixture.




"Harlequins is a club for all and we believe sport should be too," said Quins chief executive Laurie Dalrymple.

"The club is proud to lead efforts to make sport inclusive and develop evidence based programs to ensure every young person can play and enjoy sport."

While 69% of the male players surveyed had heard homophobic language from team-mates in the past fortnight, 67% said they had 'close' gay friends.

"Most rugby players say they use the homophobic language to get a laugh out of others, or fit in on their team, and it seems they don't realise how harmful this language is to gay people, or to the team culture generally," Erik Denison, one of the researchers at Monash University leading international studies on this issue, said.

"It was very interesting to see most want the language to stop being used, but don't realise everyone else on their team feels the same way."

Harlequins said the study analysed data collected from 275 male and female rugby players - aged between 16 and 42 - from eight randomly selected rugby clubs in the south of England in January and February this year.

The findings from the research will be used to help develop programmes to stop the use of homophobic language in all sports.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: AdrianB on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 11:01*
See also

https://www.quins.co.uk/news/new-research-reveals-use-of-homophobic-language-ever-present-within-sport/
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Admin on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 13:26*
OK - well that pretty extensively reformatted that post.

As on another post can I remind you all

Quote
From The Rules of The Forum

Cyber bullying

Although forum users are encouraged to express themselves and their point of view, there is certain content that is inappropriate, including content which is deemed at the forum moderators' sole discretion to be:

Threatening in any way or intimidating, harassing, bullying or showing disrespect for any individual or group;
Illegal, libelous, defamatory, derogatory, demeaning, discriminatory, deceptive, malicious, abusive, offensive, or hateful towards any individual or group;
Racist, sexist, homophobic, offensive on the grounds of religion, nationality or demographic group.

Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: MadMax on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 13:51*
OK - well that pretty extensively reformatted that post.

As on another post can I remind you all

Can I still be boring?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Fearless Fred on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 13:54*
Sorry, I nodded off. What were you saying?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: HamptonCourtJester on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 14:21*
Fairly shocked by some of the posts today :(
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: GillQuin on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 16:03*
Can we all just talk about rugby, please.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Pat on Friday 14-Feb-2020, 22:18*
No-one should abuse anyone...for any reason.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: number_seven on Saturday 15-Feb-2020, 12:37*
I think it's a great initiative by harlequins to shine a light on this aspect of rugby culture. People often talk of rugby values in a positive way, but I think many people would acknowledge that homophobia has been present in (male) sporting culture for some time.

I'm proud that they've taken a stand and chosen to celebrate diversity. Hopefully this will help boost inclusion and bring more people into the game from all walks of life.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Sunday 16-Feb-2020, 01:58*
It was a great day to remind ourselves that our players are not a bunch of utter jessies.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Sunday 16-Feb-2020, 02:03*
The rainbow flag was brilliant - showed us that Landajo is completely useless.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 16-Feb-2020, 20:31*
I would guess most of us know gay people. I'd also suggest that a lot of gay people have an interesting sense of humour, fairly self deprecating. But then so do people with disabilities, for example. I knew a chap in a wheelchair who nicknamed himself "Ironside". And a gay chap who loved the nickname "Queenie", given by his husband. Ironically, one of the gay chap's colleagues was reprimanded for using homophobic language because another colleague had complained.

Therein lies a big part of the problem. People rush to be offended and suddenly the so called offence is deemed "phobic". One man's humour is another man's insult, and it can be a fine line.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Fearless Fred on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 14:41*
An interesting article from a gay Quins supporter following Saturdays game can be found here (https://t.co/TXNEpKbRBO?amp=1).
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: DOK on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 15:18*
That's a great article, thanks.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Carbonm on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 15:51*
Good read that and shows the importance of these events.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: InsertQuinsPunHere on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 19:03*
That is a great article, thank you for sharing. A good answer to my earlier question about the impact of such a day.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Mayor West on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 20:21*
I hope rocker has read this and it answers some questions for him.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Brown Bottle on Tuesday 18-Feb-2020, 21:53*
Quote
Therein lies a big part of the problem. People rush to be offended and suddenly the so called offence is deemed "phobic". One man's humour is another man's insult, and it can be a fine line.

I don't think you get it.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Wednesday 19-Feb-2020, 06:38*
I don't think you get it.
I don't think you know what I get.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: number_seven on Wednesday 19-Feb-2020, 12:02*
That's a great article, thanks for sharing. I also thought the video from Jade Konkel was particularly affecting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doaGFMbAi_o

Great that we can have these discussions in the club, and that we have players who can speak up.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: MadMax on Wednesday 19-Feb-2020, 12:30*
And so the intolerance to other peoples opinions continues.

How long before this thread is locked I wonder?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Friday 21-Feb-2020, 17:56*
And so the intolerance to other peoples opinions continues.

How long before this thread is locked I wonder?

Agreed. A differing opinion is met with "you don't get it", rather than "I acknowledge that we have different opinions".
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Fursty on Friday 21-Feb-2020, 18:02*
But what if that view is firmly rooted in the 1970s?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: JammyGit on Friday 21-Feb-2020, 23:15*
Agreed. A differing opinion is met with "you don't get it", rather than "I acknowledge that we have different opinions".

Suggesting you're not getting it is not intolerance. It's suggesting you're missing something fundamental about the disagreement.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 00:17*
Suggesting you're not getting it is not intolerance. It's suggesting you're missing something fundamental about the disagreement.

And if I say that you "just don't get it", how does that benefit any discussion?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 00:19*
Suggesting you're not getting it is not intolerance. It's suggesting you're missing something fundamental about the disagreement.

I'll let the gay chap in the anecdote know that he's firmly rooted in the 1970's. Even though he wasn't born then.

I'll also let him know that even though it's his life, he just "doesn't get it", and should be outraged, as others seem to be on his behalf.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 00:28*
And if I say that you "just don't get it", how does that benefit any discussion?

It's intended to make you think more, I suppose.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 02:38*
It's intended to make you think more, I suppose.
I think it's intended to suggest that I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: SwindonQuin on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 11:09*
Based on the topic.

I think that use of language that could cause offence to the LGBTQ+ community is rife in all areas, not just rugby or sport but in every workplace or social setting.

Not that 99.9% of people actually intend to cause offence. I've witnessed and to be honest said things which could be considered offensive to LGBTQ+ such as when a colleague has worn a pink shirt said 'oh suits you sir' and have said to a friend 'your such a bender' when they have done something funny or stupid. Whilst I have said these things in jest I have no intention of offending someone who is LGBTQ+ but I can see how it could cause offence to someone listening.

Maybe it's my imaturtity, lack of understanding or just I'm a bit insensitive but it is something I personally need to work on as an individual.

It might sound stereotypical but in my extended family we have a bi-sexual, a gay and a post op transgender, they are who they are and their sexual orientation has no impact on me as they are just human beings. I have only ever judged them on your actions and personality as I judge everyone I meet.

Some of the comments on here, which seem to have been deleted and/or shut down have been disgusting, whilst everyone has their own views and opinions you should only ever post online something you would say in public and to the person's face.

I strongly belove that some people need to think about what they say or act as of it was your child/friend/family who were being targeted would you accept it as freedom of speech, I doubt it.

Intolerance and hate only leads to anger and division.

I maybe a straight man but I would break bread with anyone who is a decent human being (in my opinion of course)

Sorry if this comes across a bit preacher esc.

COYQ
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: New Forest Quin on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 11:32*
I'm a racing cyclist and have been heavily involved in the sport since the late 70s.
One of the best British riders in the 80s was Robert Millar who finished 4th and won the King of the Mountains in the 1984 Tour de France.
Robert has now become Pippa York and I was sitting at a table next to her at a cycling dinner a few weeks ago and the most notable thing, other than the physical change, was that she seemed happy to finally be living the life which she had been hiding for so many years and, whatever anyone else might think about your decision to make these changes, to be able to live a content and happy life is surely the most important thing.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: MadMax on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 11:58*
But what if that view is firmly rooted in the 1970s?

Well some people think the world is flat which was disproved long before the 1970s but if they want to believe it then that's up to them.

I'll never agree with them but if they want to make themselves look stupid in putting forward that opinion then I wouldn't want to stop them.

Until they start making offensive comments of course and to be honest I can't see any of those on this thread.

So far!
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 12:59*
Who decides what is offensive? Are people entitled to be offended on behalf of others, when those others are not?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 13:01*
Based on the topic.

I think that use of language that could cause offence to the LGBTQ+ community is rife in all areas, not just rugby or sport but in every workplace or social setting.

Not that 99.9% of people actually intend to cause offence. I've witnessed and to be honest said things which could be considered offensive to LGBTQ+ such as when a colleague has worn a pink shirt said 'oh suits you sir' and have said to a friend 'your such a bender' when they have done something funny or stupid. Whilst I have said these things in jest I have no intention of offending someone who is LGBTQ+ but I can see how it could cause offence to someone listening.

Maybe it's my imaturtity, lack of understanding or just I'm a bit insensitive but it is something I personally need to work on as an individual.

It might sound stereotypical but in my extended family we have a bi-sexual, a gay and a post op transgender, they are who they are and their sexual orientation has no impact on me as they are just human beings. I have only ever judged them on your actions and personality as I judge everyone I meet.

Some of the comments on here, which seem to have been deleted and/or shut down have been disgusting, whilst everyone has their own views and opinions you should only ever post online something you would say in public and to the person's face.

I strongly belove that some people need to think about what they say or act as of it was your child/friend/family who were being targeted would you accept it as freedom of speech, I doubt it.

Intolerance and hate only leads to anger and division.

I maybe a straight man but I would break bread with anyone who is a decent human being (in my opinion of course)

Sorry if this comes across a bit preacher esc.

COYQ

I pressed esc but nothing happened?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: MadMax on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 14:21*
Who decides what is offensive? Are people entitled to be offended on behalf of others, when those others are not?

In terms of the first question on a forum like this it is the moderator(s). Much more difficult to define elsewhere but I was only really talking about here so I'll dodge that one.

In terms of the second question I remember the great Terry Wogan always said there is no shortage of people willing to be offended on behalf of others which is undoubtedly true. Having said that I suppose it's a bit like opinions and if people want to be offended on behalf of others then let them. It doesn't mean that people have to take any notice of them and personally I seldom do.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 22-Feb-2020, 14:53*
In terms of the first question on a forum like this it is the moderator(s). Much more difficult to define elsewhere but I was only really talking about here so I'll dodge that one.

In terms of the second question I remember the great Terry Wogan always said there is no shortage of people willing to be offended on behalf of others which is undoubtedly true. Having said that I suppose it's a bit like opinions and if people want to be offended on behalf of others then let them. It doesn't mean that people have to take any notice of them and personally I seldom do.

I think we're pretty aligned on both points.

I don't go out of my way to offend anyone; but in this day and age, some people get offended at the slightest comment, innocent as it may be.

As for the moderators, I think they do a thankless task extremely well.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 13:48*
Who decides what is offensive? Are people entitled to be offended on behalf of others, when those others are not?

In some cases an affected group (usually a marginalised one) will have made it very clear they find something offensive, and it's up to the rest of us to respect that.

I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate racist behaviour even if you're not black, for example.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: FatQuin on Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 14:20*
It’s really not difficult Quinky.  Pretty much everyone accepts that calling people a poof/bender/homo etc. is out of order and has been for some time.  It doesn’t then need other people to try and make it an attack on their civil liberties.  Whether you know why lots of people find something offensive or not, just don’t use the terms - and then educate yourself in a way that doesn’t undermine a minority group.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 21:12*
It’s really not difficult Quinky.  Pretty much everyone accepts that calling people a poof/bender/homo etc. is out of order and has been for some time.  It doesn’t then need other people to try and make it an attack on their civil liberties.  Whether you know why lots of people find something offensive or not, just don’t use the terms - and then educate yourself in a way that doesn’t undermine a minority group.
Sounds simple enough.

Do you know the name of the band that were on the Jonathan Ross show? Now, what did they call themselves...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4_Poofs_and_a_Piano
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 23-Feb-2020, 22:18*
In some cases an affected group (usually a marginalised one) will have made it very clear they find something offensive, and it's up to the rest of us to respect that.

I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate racist behaviour even if you're not black, for example.

In the instance I quoted from my own experience, an individual complained that the nickname of a gay colleague was offensive as it pertained to him being gay. Unfortunately that gay colleague liked the nickname and asked to be called by it. Quandary?

Had it been the case that people had found out he was gay and gave him an offensive nickname, that would be wrong. But if the tables are turned? He tells people "this is my nickname, go ahead and use it".

It's so easy to simplify matters in theory, and in practice they usually are easy.

Another example: a few years back I recall a fan of one of our opponents coming on the old CAW and complaining that there was racist behaviour at the Stoop. They thought that the chants of "Uuuuugoooo" were actually monkey chants. We thought it was a ridiculous idea, but you see how people get their panties in a bunch?
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: FatQuin on Monday 24-Feb-2020, 08:05*
And lots of people in the LGBT+ community struggled with your example Quinky.  But If you want to find outliers pls do.  I just get the impression you know precisely what the issue is but want to make it into a theoretical discussion for you own ends.  Bit sad that.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Monday 24-Feb-2020, 08:25*
And lots of people in the LGBT+ community struggled with your example Quinky.  But If you want to find outliers pls do.  I just get the impression you know precisely what the issue is but want to make it into a theoretical discussion for you own ends.  Bit sad that.

What if I'm offended at the suggestion that it's sad? What are my "own ends"?

Genuinely, I despise what society is becoming. The issue for me is that some people get offended by the slightest thing, and make a mountain out of a molehill; that means that when something genuinely offensive is said, there will be a perception of hypersensitivity. One would hope that common sense would prevail. At my age, I don't run around calling people that I don't know a "poof" or a "bender". But if a gay friend has the nickname "Queenie", what right has anyone else got to be offended on his behalf if people use it?

Yes, it is a partly theoretical discussion. Apologies if it offends you that I like to expand upon discussions - I thought that was one of the points of a discussion board.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 08:50*
Quinky dont let them queer your pitch, mate.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: SwindonQuin on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 11:23*
Its simple really, in this day and age of instant offence, double standards and just general morons & idiots the best way to manage is it the following 5 point step:

1. Don't talk to strangers (they may get offended or feel racially abused)
2. Don't talk to anyone in an open public space including family/friends (they may get offended or feel racially abused or they maybe still privately LGBTQ+ ect)
3. Don't make eye contact with anyone outside of your home or at work (they may get offended or feel racially abused, also avoids the regular 'what are you looking at')
4. Don't stop and help anyone, irrelevant of race, religion, sexual orientation or even if they identifies as a vegetable (broccoli for example) you may be accused of being sexist/racist/discriminatory.
5. Don't leave the house, work from home and order your shopping for home delivery, that way you never have to see another person apart from the delivery person, minimise the risk of offence caused.


Or how about everyone just grows up and gets on with their own life, I you don't agree with another's life choice, sexuality, race, religion, hair colour, pet preference, if it doesn't directly affect you why care. 
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Quinky on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 11:40*
Its simple really, in this day and age of instant offence, double standards and just general morons & idiots the best way to manage is it the following 5 point step:

1. Don't talk to strangers (they may get offended or feel racially abused)
2. Don't talk to anyone in an open public space including family/friends (they may get offended or feel racially abused or they maybe still privately LGBTQ+ ect)
3. Don't make eye contact with anyone outside of your home or at work (they may get offended or feel racially abused, also avoids the regular 'what are you looking at')
4. Don't stop and help anyone, irrelevant of race, religion, sexual orientation or even if they identifies as a vegetable (broccoli for example) you may be accused of being sexist/racist/discriminatory.
5. Don't leave the house, work from home and order your shopping for home delivery, that way you never have to see another person apart from the delivery person, minimise the risk of offence caused.


Or how about everyone just grows up and gets on with their own life, I you don't agree with another's life choice, sexuality, race, religion, hair colour, pet preference, if it doesn't directly affect you why care. 

As facetious as this sounds, there's an element of truth to it. I spoke to someone a few days - an elderly gentleman - who had been spoken to somewhat aggressively as he'd held a door open for a lady (as that generation tend to do) and was told "I don't need a man to hold a door for me". I sometimes read Twitter and it astonishes me what people can take offence at, and also the same vitriol those same people can spew at people simply for having a different opinion. As for language, I would refer to Justin Trudeau and his insistence that the word "mankind" be changed to "peoplekind".

I'm old. I get that. I try to gauge right from wrong, and usually get it right. I make mistakes, we all do. There's no malice, and I'm happy to apologise if anyone gets upset. But these days that's never enough.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: honkytonk on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 11:46*
Ive started to think that some people get "outraged" if they do not have something to get "outraged" about.
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: Bolly-Quin on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 12:19*
Influencers and sinfluencers, I don't know...
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: MadMax on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 13:54*
Ive started to think that some people get "outraged" if they do not have something to get "outraged" about.

I'm outraged by that suggestion (on behalf of someone I don't know).
Title: Re: Homophobic language use common in rugby union, says research backed by Harlequins.
Post by: DOK on Tuesday 25-Feb-2020, 21:34*
Homophobic? Just a bit of fun?
Suspect a company wouldn't dare do this nowadays regardless.

(https://comeallwithin.createaforum.com/gallery/comeallwithin/21-250220213222.jpeg)