ComeAllWithin

Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Gone on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 07:30*

Title: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Gone on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 07:30*
Just wondering if the posters who said they were a drain on resources and never going to play for the club have a view now they’re back playing for the club?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Chipstead Quin on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 10:18*
Dont who wanted them sacked , but I'm sure that Saili  will be a great asset , although it may take a while to get fully match fit as he missed most of last season and a chunk of the one before whilst at Munster ( and hasn't started this one yet ), but looking forward to see him in full flow - hes a ferocious tackler and a lovely balanced runner

Im not so sure about Cat , I think his nervousness about getting clattered again might still be a problem for him ( look at the way he unloaded that wild one in the last min against Sarries)

The Prem Shield could be a good opportunity for them both to get some game time from the start .

The main point about the OP is the drain on resources , but surely there must be some sort of key man Insurance ( either taken out by the player or Club ) that covers the inability to play and loss of earnings  that would mitigate the Clubs losses ? - I would have thought that would be a standard part of a professional contract . Presumably also appearance and win bonuses  that would be unpaid.

Anyway lets hope they both get on the park and give us something to shout about
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: honkytonk on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 10:35*
Im delighted they are both back.  Re the above, im not sure it was a worry about them taking money from the club, their salaries would be accounted for, it was more the fact that they are taking up cap space (and I would guess a fair amount) and not actually playing. 

I thought the posts saying they would never play again etc were premature and harsh. 
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Chipstead Quin on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 11:18*
honkytonk - with regard to the salary cap , I would think when being medically signed off they were effectively removed from that so that injury cover could be brought in - either that , or approved injury cover doesn't count towards the salary cap ? - either way I don't see them as a drain .
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: honkytonk on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 11:26*
Kind of, I believe they are kept in the cap but, there is a 400k allowance to bring in injury cover throughout the season (Additional to the cap).  So if for example Saili was out for 4-5 months, we can bring in injury cover for him but it has to be of a similar standard, so we could not bring SBW in and pay him 400k if Saili is only on 150k (plus, if you did do that you would wipe out you entire injury dispensation fund).

Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Chipstead Quin on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 11:42*
Fair enough , I didn't realise there was fixed allowance over and above ,  - but in any event that's quite a chunk to cover costs isn't it - and surely other parts of the packages that make up the total wouldn't be paid -  just goes to show how messy the whole Cap thing is , no wonder some can drive coach and horses through it .

Anyway , they are back now so lets hope we get our moneys worth out of them ! 
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: NevsLeftBoot on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 12:11*
Big call so early in a comeback????

Joking obviously....I can't believe anyone would want them sacked/let go.... - i think it is fair to say that so far there has not been value for money from either player - not really their fault - injuries happen.

The Cat suffered a horrendous injury and to be fair if he plays after that, then i can only applaud his efforts.

Quins took a punt on Saili, who was injured for a large part of his time at Munster, and so far it has not worked.... If he goes on to play 50+ games for the club and delivers on his potential promise then great....
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: J Scott on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 12:24*
Just wondering if the posters who said they were a drain on resources and never going to play for the club have a view now they’re back playing for the club?

Like has been alluded to if Sialli goes on to play a bucket load of games and we see his full potential then absolutely correct decision, and I hope this will happen as I would expect to see great things if he can stay fit.  However if he plays a couple of games and picks up another long term injury how much longer do we give it?

If he can stay fit then we really have some class in midfield.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Rocker on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 16:17*
Hmm Salo's first (?) touch and a silly offload gifts Agen a try.....
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 19:33*
I believe there was a thread where the OP claimed that we never Sailli or Cat play for Quins again...
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 19:36*
I thought that was Tapuia?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Gone on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 19:36*
I believe there was a thread where the OP claimed that we never Sailli or Cat play for Quins again...

no specifically not me - but at least a couple did - hence the thread 
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: DOK on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 19:38*
I think we can probably agree a number of things were said in the depths of last season's despair that turned out to be untrue or people wish hadn't been said.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Archquin on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 20:36*
Hmm Salo's first (?) touch and a silly offload gifts Agen a try..
Harsh to criticise someone when it wasn't even their pass  👎
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Fearless Fred on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 20:42*
Who's Salo?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Rocker on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 20:47*
My mistake I thought from the other side of the stadium that it was his rather loose pass that led to their try. Who was it then? Bothma's silly pass led to their first.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: GP2110 on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 21:04*
It was a loose offload by Tapui, which left Salili with no chance.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Rocker on Saturday 13-Oct-2018, 23:07*
Fair enough. It was still damn silly trying to force that offload with very little space or time.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Everyone’s a Quinner on Sunday 14-Oct-2018, 00:49*
So pleased they are both back getting a few minutes here and there. I think Saili will go on to great things with Quins when his match fitness betters and hopefully stays injury free for a while
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 14-Oct-2018, 05:07*
I believe there was a thread where the OP claimed that we never Sailli or Cat play for Quins again...

no specifically not me - but at least a couple did - hence the thread

Definitely not you Blucher. I think it was one of the perennial doom merchants.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Sunday 14-Oct-2018, 11:59*
It was Tapuai
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 14-Oct-2018, 17:13*
It was Tapuai

I didn't know he posted on here?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: JammyGit on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 09:22*
Im not so sure about Cat , I think his nervousness about getting clattered again might still be a problem for him ( look at the way he unloaded that wild one in the last min against Sarries)

He needed to get that away ASAP for us to have a shot at scoring. The problem was he messed up the pass, not that he rushed it.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Cookie on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 10:30*
What's Tapuai's username on here? I don't recall him saying anyone should be sacked (irony klaxon).

But then nor did anyone who shouldn't just be ignored.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: marlowish on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 13:29*
Yes it is fantastic to see them back and if they stay fit no one will be more delighted than I am.
However, Salli in particular seems to be very prone to injury.
How much have they cost per game or minute of play.
I think the Cat has played about 30 mins and Salli about 120 since they signed. Hardly a wonderful return. 
When they  have played a full season I will agree they should stay same as Jack C. 
No one would be more delighted than me if they stayed fit for a season and put in the performances they are capable of.
Some players are however prone to injury, not their fault, and they must be very frustrated. 
A certain Brain Clough, a guy who knew more about winning things than anyone we have ever had at quins, said he did not bother to talk to injured players as they were no use to the club or the fans or himself. 
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: honkytonk on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 14:05*
Different era in Cloughs day.  Not sure he would have much luck with that today
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: deadlyfrom5yardsout on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 14:06*
 :P
What's Tapuai's username on here? I don't recall him saying anyone should be sacked (irony klaxon).

But then nor did anyone who shouldn't just be ignored.

Why isn't there a raspberry emoji?

 :P :P
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: T-Bone on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 14:53*
Is Saili primarily a 12 or 13? So far Tapuai and MArchant have looked like a very useful pairing
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: Fearless Fred on Monday 15-Oct-2018, 16:59*
I thought Saili was mainly a 13, but I could be wrong. He has occasionally played on the wing, which is why I think he's more a 13 than a 12.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: poorfour on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 13:32*
IIRC, Olly Kohn arrived in rehab and was injured for a long while before he started playing consistently. And then he was fabulous for several years until Wales finally broke him beyond repair.

Quins physios certainly used to have a good knack of refreshing the players other clubs couldn't reach [1], though they seem to have lost the golden touch a little. The club has been pretty loyal to its injured players, which has paid off several times through players staying when they were offered much more to leave, and it has also been good at giving them a decent exit once it's clear they won't recover. In an attritional sport like rugby, I value that.

As a parent of two children who have dreams of playing professional rugby (however unlikely those dream may be), I would not want them to play for a club that would treat them like consumables rather than human beings. If that comes at the cost of worse results sometimes, then I am actually OK with that because I think it pays off more often than not in the team spirit that it engenders.

And quoting Brian Clough just reminds me that this isn't football and I don't want it to be.

[1] Something to do with Heineken, perhaps?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: InsertQuinsPunHere on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 13:37*
The club has been pretty loyal to its injured players, which has paid off several times through players staying when they were offered much more to leave, and it has also been good at giving them a decent exit once it's clear they won't recover. In an attritional sport like rugby, I value that.

Yes, I agree - I like the fact that our sport can still (just about) take the long view, with all the attendant benefits.

As a parent of two children who have dreams of playing professional rugby (however unlikely those dream may be), I would not want them to play for a club that would treat them like consumables rather than human beings. If that comes at the cost of worse results sometimes, then I am actually OK with that because I think it pays off more often than not in the team spirit that it engenders.

And this too - I actually think that team spirit in rugby is more valuable than star players. Another reason to love the sport.
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: RodneyRegis on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 14:47*
The club has been pretty loyal to its injured players, which has paid off several times through players staying when they were offered much more to leave

Is that right? Not saying it isn't, but do you have a source for that info?
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: InsertQuinsPunHere on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 16:10*
It's a feeling on my part, but a quick list of injured players who were/are around for a while:

George Lowe
Joe Gray
June Porno Salad

Injured and let go, but didn't feel like it was particularly quickly afterwards:

Ollie Kohn
JTH

Don't know about the "offered more to leave part"
Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: T-Bone on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 17:43*
Porno-Salad should not feature on the same list as the likes of Lowe and JTH.

Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: dinsdale on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 18:54*
It's a feeling on my part, but a quick list of injured players who were/are around for a while:

George Lowe
Joe Gray
June Porno Salad

Injured and let go, but didn't feel like it was particularly quickly afterwards:

Ollie Kohn
JTH

Don't know about the "offered more to leave part"
I recall that Olly Kohn turned down better offers to stay with Quins because of how he was looked after when he was injured.  I think somebody on the board who knew him mentioned it.

Title: Re: Saili, The Cat - weren’t we meant to sack them?
Post by: InsertQuinsPunHere on Tuesday 16-Oct-2018, 19:16*
Porno-Salad should not feature on the same list as the likes of Lowe and JTH.

I know, but to look after someone despite being June Porno-Salad only helps the argument that we're good to squad members with long term injuries.