ComeAllWithin
Rugby => ComeAllWithin Board => Topic started by: Nico Wilson on Tuesday 08-Jan-2019, 13:38*
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According to Danny Care on the BBC Rugby Union Weekly podcast - start listening from about 15 minutes in:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06xgs6b
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Good news. Gives PG a chance to build his own side and work out what he wants.
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And Jack Clifford departing for Exeter according to TRP.
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Sorry didn't realise this was related to the Pod Cast and posted a new topic on it
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Sorry didn't realise this was related to the Pod Cast and posted a new topic on it
No problem
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And Jack Clifford departing for Exeter according to TRP.
Have they actually said he's going, or just a repeat of the old rumour that he's in talks?
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So DC named 25 players that are out of contract at end of season, just looking at the squad list on the website I have had a guess at 23 of the 25:
Alofa
Boyce
Buchanan
Catrakilis
R.Chisholm
Cheeseman
Elia Elia
Horwill
Ibuanokpe
Kunatani
Lambert
Lewis
Luamanu
Mcnulty
Merrick
South
Swainston
Visser
Walker
Wallace
Ward
Waters
White
Thoughts?
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If that list is correct - it would get rid of a huge amount of dead wood and would be hugely positive.
The only players I would keep are:
Elia Elia
Ibuanokpe
Kunatani
The rest I would happily see leave
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I think that is a good opportunity for PG to clear the decks with a few names. Laskie, didnt he only sign a 1 year deal???
I would keep Cheeseman, Ibuanopke, Kunatani, Waters for definate (also Laskie if he is ooc) Elia depends on how RB comes back, but I do like him as a player
Others would depend on how they come back from injury RB, Horwill, Visser, The Cat,
Then it would depend on who else is coming in. Cant make my mind up about South, Swainston, McNulty, R Chisholm. Like I said, depends who may be coming in
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Yes, but that is always the problem of the DOR, isn't it? You may want to get rid of all those people, but what if you can't get anyone better? What if you can't get anyone at all? You've just invested a huge amount of time, effort and trouble getting the team to play your way and now you're jeopardising all that by replacing half the team. Suppose some of those people have fully bought into your vision, and you think you're going to be swapping them for people only interested in the money and the glory? Suppose all the people you want to get (who presumably are better) are also 20% more expensive?
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I missed Waters. I would include him also. And Lasike if he is on the list
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Yeah your right i would keep those 3 too.
Only issue I have is to lose 20+ players (nearly half of the playing squad) in one go could have a massive impact. Also the fact we will need to recruit 20+ players in the summer....is that feasible?
will be an interesting summer for sure.
I for one trust Gustard and the new regime so fingers crossed!
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If there is no relegation next season, it would be a great chance to rebuild with no pressure
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I'd assumed that the 25 included the Academy as well. Ibitoye and Murley are still in the Academy.
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Yeah your right i would keep those 3 too.
Only issue I have is to lose 20+ players (nearly half of the playing squad) in one go could have a massive impact. Also the fact we will need to recruit 20+ players in the summer....is that feasible?
will be an interesting summer for sure.
I for one trust Gustard and the new regime so fingers crossed!
This. Unless we think our squad is massively oversized, we'd have to replace most of what we let go. Do we honestly think we could make 15-20 signings that are better than what we have? C'mon people!!
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also DC says 25 players are out of contract, some of those players could be in negotiations to stay.
Meaning we maybe only losing 10 maybe a bit more. Which is still quite a lot of players to recruit.
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Although Paul Gustard is on record s saying that we will have a smaller squad next year.
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Just because they are out of contract doesn’t mean that they are all leaving. Gussy will keep those he wants and move on the rest. To think that we will be getting twenty new players is not going to be good for any squad as they will all have to get used to each other.
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With the potential clear out coming along just seen that Bath are releasing Rhys Priestland, he's 31 and with no call ups to Wales he will be playing all season. Just wondering what people think about him and with Demetri Catrakilis potentially out of contract and never playing could Rhys come in and be a senior for Lang and Smith?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46799702
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Priestland would be a great signing in my opinion
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As posted on the other thread - I've often wondered about the timing of these conversations versus public announcements on departures and recruits. Merrick's departure to Clermont is a good example. It's been suggested he was one that was told he was surplus to requirements, but found and announced a new employer pretty quickly. There may be others that are deemed surplus, but I guess unless we have secured the contract with a replacement, we can't announce it and the club wouldn't inform the outgoing player of their intentions for risk of being unable to replace them in the squad ? I don't know how they manage to juggle the incomings and outgoings with any certainty. Does anyone have any actual experience/insight of this ?
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I can imagine peoples thoughts being a bit "Marmite", but what about Paddy Jackson. Leaving France (where he has done pretty well considering Perpignan have been poor). LI interested apparently
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I think DOK is right in his assessment, gustard is starting to get a tune out of jk,s fiddle and to release a lot of squad players is a dangerous game to play. Most clubs have already done their transfer business so who is available and crucially better than the players that are leaving??? If he is looking to replace them with top international players that poses the question of the lack of back up due to injuries and call ups during a busy international season,, I think the walker to Leicester deal is not happening as they have apparently signed Tom varndell,, a strange choice that as varndell is 33 and maybe not as quick as Charlie
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DC talks about 25 guys being out of contract in the context of it being roughly half the squad of 50 – I would assume therefore that the 25 includes some guys who have already re-signed.
Having said that there are a lot of guys who we’re not currently getting much value from (particularly in the front row) that said we’re only an injury or 2 away from needing them and that’s the balance with building a squad.
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Gustard was a coach at Saracens when they cleared out 15 players - http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/saracens/7908906.stm. Not inconceivable that he could do something similar. Of course they had the SA imports lined up to take a number of the spots being vacated.
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I can imagine peoples thoughts being a bit "Marmite", but what about Paddy Jackson.
LI are welcome to him. Signing Jackson would be a PR disaster (imo) for Quins, and whatever he may bring to the side from a playing perspective wouldn't be close to worth it.
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No one has said 25 are being cleared out.
But D.C. very clear that there are “lads” in Quins who’ve now been told they aren’t needed and aren’t happy about it - and some who are happy to go.
On the contract point - there’s nothing stopping anyone saying they’ve not had their contract renewed.
Presumably those players who have been cut and haven’t yet found a new job are given the benefit by Quins of that not being made public just yet.
Again D.C. effectively said there were players in that situation now at Quins.
He was insistent that rugby players in that situatuon still give it their all for the team because it’s what rugby is about - let’s hope so!
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I dont think a clear out is out of the question. Based on transfer talk/Rumours (yes, I know they are just that) and my own guess -
OUT
Boyce
Lambert
Ward
Buchanan or Elia (Only possible)
McNulty
Merrick
Glynn
Clifford
Luamanu
Wallace
White
The Cat (I would keep him, still think he has something to offer)
Lewis
Cheeseman (Would like to keep him)
Alofa
Walker and/or Visser
IN
New LH (From Argentina
New Hooker
Int Lock (Possb playing in Japan)
Young (Falcons)
Witty (Falcons. Seems like Exeter is more likely for him)
Evans (Tigers)
Lawday (Exeter)
Waters (Back from Jersey Loan)
A back 3 player
A Replacement for The Cat
Roughly 16 out and 10 in. From the list of leavers,a shame to see a couple go but apart from Clifford, no real disaster there. Could maybe do with another body to cover back row.
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So DC named 25 players that are out of contract at end of season, just looking at the squad list on the website I have had a guess at 23 of the 25:
GO
Alofa
Buchanan
Catrakilis
Elia Elia
Swainston
Lewis
Luamanu
Merrick
Ward
White
KEEP
Boyce
R.Chisholm
Ibuanokpe
Kunatani
South
Visser
Walker
Wallace
Waters
DON'T MIND
Cheeseman
Mcnulty
RETIRED
Lambert
Horwill
Thoughts?
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Unless something massively changes there’s no way he’s keeping Wallace, Walker or Visser - and can’t see why we’d want them anymore.
I also dont see why people don’t want Elia. He’s 22. Really promising player.
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I agree entirely. If I was in charge, Wallace would have no chance of a new contract. He's offered nothing when fit and was injured for a long period.
Walker and Visser are both great players on their day but we have excellent wingers coming through the academy. Earle is also a star.
Elia is definitely worth another contract. He will only get better for me.
I would love nothing more than Clifford to sign a new contract. I have always thought he is an excellent player.
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Visser signed a new 2 year deal in Jan last year - so would assume he's not out of contract this summer.
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Visser is a quality player who scores loads of tries. Last season (and in the A games) he covers full back. He should be kept.
Sadly, he is injured this season - but that is not a reason to let him go. Injuries can happen to any player at any time.
I suspect that Visser is looking at playing out his current contract and then retiring.
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To be fair, I doubt Gussy had a great deal of input into the decision of Sarries over the clear-out, seeing as he was only an Assistant Coach at the time. That was more down to Ventner and the New Owners, I would say...
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If the list is:
Alofa
Boyce
Buchanan
Catrakilis
R.Chisholm
Cheeseman
Clifford
Elia Elia
Horwill
Ibuanokpe
Kunatani
Lambert
Lewis
Luamanu
Mcnulty
Merrick
South
Swainston
Visser
Walker
Wallace
Ward
Waters
White
I'd like to keep:
Boyce
Clifford
Visser
Ward
Waters
Undecided on:
Buchanan
R.Chisholm
Elia Elia
Horwill
Ibuanokpe
Kunatani
South
However, Boyce going seems a done deal
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Another thing to bear in mind is that there are many players performing well at the moment, who didn't look so good under JK. Gustard seems to be getting the best out of players and for all we know, guys like McNulty (as an example) may be doing great things in training. The fact that we don't see it on the pitch isn't a reason to dismiss them out of hand.
I'd be sorry to see a few of those players go:
Alofa - always rated him
Boyce - lots of promise and is playing well
Catrakilis - his story so far is a tragedy for him, and us
R.Chisholm - solid squad player
Elia Elia - a quality player with a great future
Ibuanokpe - massive potential
Kunatani - offers something very different
Luamanu - on his day, offers so much
Merrick - beginning to see what he has to offer
Visser - quality, when he's firing on all cylinders
Walker - a joy to watch in attack
Waters - still developing
Some of these are already confirmed as going, and I wish them well. I just hope we have better replacements lined up.
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Unless something massively changes there’s no way he’s keeping Wallace, Walker or Visser - and can’t see why we’d want them anymore.
I also dont see why people don’t want Elia. He’s 22. Really promising player.
Agreed. For his age and the how good he is at times I think he’s one to hold onto. With Codling behind him and pushing him in the right direction he could really be special
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For all of the talk, AFAIK, the only confirmed transfer so far is Merrick to Clermont.
Boyce is obviously heavily linked with Bath and Alofa is widely expected to move to France (I think it was Bayonne?), but I’m not sure how solid the Clifford and Walker rumours are?
Maybe Clifford just wants to flop over the line of 5m lineout for a living?
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Alofa move announced by him and French media.
Clifford approached but arniepie says he’s staying.
Visser - honestly? JK dropped him and we all said JK had a problem. I think clearly not. The guy is pretty unique which probably doesn’t work well in a dressing room like Gustard’s. He may be injured now but that wasn’t the reason he wasn’t playing - it’s because Gustard didn’t want him in the side.
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I think DOK is right in his assessment, gustard is starting to get a tune out of jk,s fiddle and to release a lot of squad players is a dangerous game to play. Most clubs have already done their transfer business so who is available and crucially better than the players that are leaving??? If he is looking to replace them with top international players that poses the question of the lack of back up due to injuries and call ups during a busy international season,, I think the walker to Leicester deal is not happening as they have apparently signed Tom varndell,, a strange choice that as varndell is 33 and maybe not as quick as Charlie
From what I gather on this end (Tigers) Walker backed out of a mid season move, so Tigers picked up Varndell till end of season.
Might still be a chance of Walker to Tigers but would be likely next season if the case.
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Blucherquin I didn’t say Clifford was staying I said it was a maybe move
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Well either way, I think we’d all prefer it to be a maybe not than a maybe yes.
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Visser has been off the pace for about a year now and I don't see him challenging for a 1st Team spot in future - I'd let him go if we can.
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Blucherquin I didn’t say Clifford was staying I said it was a maybe move
Yeah to be honest I couldn't remember where the thread was, I remember you said it wasn't a done deal, and figured I'd make it up after that...
;)
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RIL will be quoting it as fact shortly.
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RIL will be quoting it as fact shortly.
What a knob.
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Didn't Cheeseman and McNulty have there contracts renewed not long ago? Both are currently out on loan
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Didn't Cheeseman and McNulty have there contracts renewed not long ago? Both are currently out on loan
Cheeseman was Feb last year but did'nt state the length so maybe 1 yr or 5yr
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42980691