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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #15 on: »
Quote from: Le Tiss on Wednesday 20-Oct-2021, 18:04*
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Although I don't fully understand  why it's seen as acceptable to use one groups imagery and not another's.
...

So presumably you don't see a problem with the Black & White Minstrel Show?
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #16 on: »
Not really the same is it? We are in danger of straying into unsavoury territory that's not really for this forum I wouldn't think.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #17 on: »
So stag outings dressed in ponchos, false moustaches and a sombrero; cultural misappropriation or a day out on the p**s with mates? My daughter, anglo saxon, dressing up in a sari to celebrate different cultures at school; cultural misappropriation or acknowledging the value of other cultures? The list goes on…..There will always be someone offended by something, certain people seem to take a pleasure in it these days, where do we draw the line?
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #18 on: »
Quote from: Le Tiss on Wednesday 20-Oct-2021, 20:37*
Not really the same is it? We are in danger of straying into unsavoury territory that's not really for this forum I wouldn't think.

It’s still imagery, isn’t it? If it makes you feel uncomfortable then surely you do “understand  why it's seen as acceptable to use one groups imagery and not another's.”.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #19 on: »
Is this going to be another long drawn out boring thread ???
and I thought this was a Rugby Forum with a focus on Harlequins its getting just a bad as the CAW site
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #20 on: »
That’s Village People out of the job then.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: Rigoletto on Wednesday 20-Oct-2021, 21:00*
So stag outings dressed in ponchos, false moustaches and a sombrero; cultural misappropriation or a day out on the p**s with mates? My daughter, anglo saxon, dressing up in a sari to celebrate different cultures at school; cultural misappropriation or acknowledging the value of other cultures? The list goes on…..There will always be someone offended by something, certain people seem to take a pleasure in it these days, where do we draw the line?

I think that is indeed a question that needs to be asked and in reference to your examples I would say that the stag-do is offensive as it is a caricature that they are probably using as they think it is 'funny'.

Your second example would not be offensive especially if done in the way that I know most schools do those days, normally it involves engaging with people from the particular culture and inviting them into the school in order to learn more about it.

The 2 biggest problems with the Exeter example which obviously started this is that they are 1 - making money from use of another culture (and as far as I am aware do not donate any of these profits etc to any organisations linked to that culture, however please do correct me if I am wrong here) and 2 - have been told by people from that culture that they find it offensive.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: Teddington Taff on Tuesday 19-Oct-2021, 14:44*
Nobody is asking the fans to do anything. Whether it is right or wrong - it is the club that is being challenged. The Native American culture is really quite extraordinary and not how Hollywood showed it (back in the day).  It's been a point of contention for quite a few years.  Exeter have unwittingly found themselves in the middle.  On balance I think that we and Wasps should leave them to it. 

There's literally another thread discussing Wasps asking the premiership to consider banning headdresses...
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #23 on: »
Quote from: Quintessentially Quins on Thursday 21-Oct-2021, 09:53*

The 2 biggest problems with the Exeter example which obviously started this is that they are 1 - making money from use of another culture (and as far as I am aware do not donate any of these profits etc to any organisations linked to that culture, however please do correct me if I am wrong here) and 2 - have been told by people from that culture that they find it offensive.

Exactly. I'm not in favour of all the more extreme wokery where we tear down statues and re-write history, but in the case of Chiefs its a simple commercial decision with no historical rationale attached at all. Something like 10m native americans were wiped out by European colonists over 250yrs, so if nothing else its in poor taste for a rugby club to use the imagery just for a bit of extra cash and 'fun.'

Using the imagery as branding for 20yrs no reason other than that Chiefs thought it would be cool is not a good enough reason to keep it. Keep the name, change the branding to something Anglo-Saxon, and this all goes away......mad that they are still holding out.

And BM is entitled to his opinion - he talks a lot of sense IMO which is why he's a successful pundit.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: Quintessential on Thursday 21-Oct-2021, 11:25*
Exactly. I'm not in favour of all the more extreme wokery where we tear down statues and re-write history, but in the case of Chiefs its a simple commercial decision with no historical rationale attached at all. Something like 10m native americans were wiped out by European colonists over 250yrs, so if nothing else its in poor taste for a rugby club to use the imagery just for a bit of extra cash and 'fun.'

Using the imagery as branding for 20yrs no reason other than that Chiefs thought it would be cool is not a good enough reason to keep it. Keep the name, change the branding to something Anglo-Saxon, and this all goes away......mad that they are still holding out.

And BM is entitled to his opinion - he talks a lot of sense IMO which is why he's a successful pundit.

Well this is just it. If you read people wearing head dresses as a glorification of native Americans being killed by Europeans then frankly you're an idiot. Exeter are hardly saying 'we are a bit weak and easily overcome'. Surely they are tapping into their warlike spirit, rather than the massacres.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #25 on: »
I don't think you understand the difference between "it's in poor taste for a european team with no attachment to native americans to use their imagery for commercial reasons, partly because europeans nearly wiped them out in the first place" and "exeter are glorifying the massacre of native americans".
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #26 on: »
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They could so easily use Ancient Britons as an icon, although this dashing chap is obviously a Quins fan...

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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #27 on: »
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These chaps look a little bit more animated...





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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: Quintessential on Thursday 21-Oct-2021, 11:25*
Exactly. I'm not in favour of all the more extreme wokery where we tear down statues and re-write history, but in the case of Chiefs its a simple commercial decision with no historical rationale attached at all. Something like 10m native americans were wiped out by European colonists over 250yrs, so if nothing else its in poor taste for a rugby club to use the imagery just for a bit of extra cash and 'fun.'

Using the imagery as branding for 20yrs no reason other than that Chiefs thought it would be cool is not a good enough reason to keep it. Keep the name, change the branding to something Anglo-Saxon, and this all goes away......mad that they are still holding out.

And BM is entitled to his opinion - he talks a lot of sense IMO which is why he's a successful pundit.

Agree you about Exeter but wouldn't agree taking statues down of slave traders down is erasing history, they belong in a museum.
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Re: Brian Moore
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: Bolly-Quin on Thursday 21-Oct-2021, 15:37*
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They could so easily use Ancient Britons as an icon, although this dashing chap is obviously a Quins fan...

Isn't that Matt Hopper?
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  3. Brian Moore