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Author Topic: Letís get real for a minute  (Read 1030 times)

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guest694

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Letís get real for a minute
« on: Thursday 02-Jan-2020, 19:31* »
Team selection for Sale with Dombrandt noticeably absent has led to quite a few questions ranging from injury, rotated, strategic and rested for Europe. But there has also been mention of its impact on his selection for the Six Nations.

Now I think heís an awesome player, but for the sake of debate, can I play Devilís Advocate and ask if people really think he can challenge any of our current England back row? Watching Robshaw is nothing short of art appreciation and every week another stat comes out about heís carried more, turned over or tackled more than the rest of his peers. If Robshaw canít get back in, can we really expect more of Dombrandt?...
Underhill and Curry both get the nod for me, I canít see Alex rubbing shoulders with any of their like just yet... Thoughts?

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TomBuckQuin

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 02-Jan-2020, 20:16* »
I think comparing Dombrandt with Robshaw and picturing him as an international flanker is where you're wide of the mark here. Dombrandt's best position is undoubtedly 8. Personally, I've felt Vunipola has been on a steady decline for the past couple of years - maybe injury issues, but either way, he's not the same wrecking ball as he was a few years ago. Dombrandt has the potential to take the challenge to Vunipola (and other players competing for the England 8/20 shirts - Hughes, Wilson, Morgan, Simmonds, Mercer, etc...)

Just looking at those other options, there's one I personally would have ahead of Dombrandt for this 6 Nations - Morgan. But he's been overlooked for years now - no idea why, he's been consistently brilliant for Gloucester. Assuming he's overlooked again, that's when Dombrandt starts to look like a serious option...

I'm hopeful that Hughes has played his last game for England because he's shown he isn't the same player at international level; Wilson is more of a flanker than an 8 so will probably be contesting for a flanker squad place with the likes of Earl, Kvesic, etc.; Simmonds never seems to get a decent run of games together at the right time to make a viable run for a squad spot; and Mercer is injured.

I'd have no qualms seeing either Morgan or Simmonds get into the squad ahead of Dombrandt for this 6N - but I predict he'll make an England matchday squad by the end of 2020 if he stays fit. He's got "it" for me. I'm wayyy more concerned that we see confirmation of his re-signing if I'm honest. Maybe they're working out how they keep both him and Kyle and we have a dual announcement coming our way. Let me dream.
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Mayor West

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 02-Jan-2020, 20:27* »
If I remember rightly Dombrandt played really well in the barbarians game. I think he played at 8. Eddie seems to be bringing in a lot of young players who I would imagine are easier to recoach the England way.
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guest694

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 02-Jan-2020, 21:01* »
Just looking at those other options, there's one I personally would have ahead of Dombrandt for this 6 Nations - Morgan. But he's been overlooked for years now - no idea why, he's been consistently brilliant for Gloucester. Assuming he's overlooked again, that's when Dombrandt starts to look like a serious option...
Completely agree about Ben Morgan. Hands down a better 8 than BV for me. He was snubbed after the 2012 6N and I canít see how he ever lost his foothold in the camp. Can only assume itís a personality thing that Eddie doesnít like. He had a blinder against us before Xmas.
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Harleys Evil Step Mum

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 02-Jan-2020, 21:39* »
Totally agree, IMHO he will turn out to be a club legend, but not good enough for the international stage

Fish Quin

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #5 on: Friday 03-Jan-2020, 09:38* »
Underhill, Curry and Vunipola will probably hold down their positions for some years to come (they certainly have the age profile). Vunipola hasnít been at his best but if he can find his best form he is unstoppable, and I canít see the England selectors not picking him when fit, at least for the next couple of seasons.

You would expect 3 or 4 other guys to be given a chance over the next World Cup cycle.

Morgan was sensational for England a few years back but I think he was dropped because he lost form for quite a long period of time. He is playing much better now, but still not quite as good as he used to be and I canít see him getting picked (rightly or wrongly).

Based on his World Cup selection, Ludlum seems a likely pick at some point. Wilson may get a few games too, but may be moved on.

I donít think Dombrandt is one of the 2/3 best remaining options right now, but as selection will likely have the next World Cup in mind, I wouldnít be surprised to see him in England squads and given minutes over the next couple of seasons because of his potential.

I think the most likely is Simmonds. Mercer could come back into it, but had a pretty poor second half of the season last year. Hill at Worcester is another who may get a look in, along with Willis at wasps or Earl at Saracens. I see Dombrandt competing with these guys and probably at a similar level. Itís all about who can kick on. 

Just please donít bring Hughes or Shields back in!


Quinky

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #6 on: Friday 03-Jan-2020, 11:31* »
Unfortunately players get injured all too often and that leaves the door open for others. Coaches know this so will plan for every scenario. Dombrandt is still young in rugby terms and is getting better and better. Already he has shown he can compete against the best and not look out of place. The key is consistency, and further improvement. I wouldn't bet against him getting an England spot in the next 12-18 months.
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JammyGit

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #7 on: Friday 03-Jan-2020, 13:05* »
As an aside, I don't think this season's Robshaw is pulling up trees at all. Statistically his numbers are nothing special these days compared with the alternatives. Everyone makes a huge number of tackles, and his carrying is not what it used to be. Just to look at his last 3 starts:

v Tigers, 9 carries for 14m, 7 tackles made / 1 missed
v Wasps, 4 carries for 3m, 8 tackles made / 3 missed
v Ulster, 5 carries for 4m, 9 tackles made / 2 missed

He is nowhere near the player he used to be and having him at 7 is a bit of an issue for us as he's gotten slower. I have huge respect for his skills and his game nous but it seems fairly clear to me that his injury ended his England career and he does not look like he should be back in the squad.


However, what Dombrandt brings is a combination of tackle-busting power, great lines and offloading, and breakdown skills. This means he's a live option for number 8 or 6, and our "classic" 6 and 8 options are not that deep. For 8, we have Billy and Nathan Hughes, who both have their issues, and then the completely different Sam Simmonds who might not have the game for international rugby. We've learned time and again that we need an alternative to Billy so 8 is a good shout for him, and it's also not somewhere where there's loads of quality youngsters banging on the door.

6 is a different story, Eddie likes his dual opensides so both the Curry twins are in the mix, as well as Jack Willis, then you get youngsters like Ted Hill at Worcs who's seriously impressive and maybe the Bath kid whose name escapes me too. It's more congested for sure.

Bolly-Quin

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Re: Letís get real for a minute
« Reply #8 on: Friday 03-Jan-2020, 13:56* »
As an aside, I don't think this season's Robshaw is pulling up trees at all.

I tend to agree - he's never been the best runner with the ball and his work rate is beginning to slow. I wonder whether his captaincy this year is his swan song and next year will be an off-the-bench reduced salary Robshaw, making more room for the replacements we need elsewhere.

I don't know whether he would go to France for a few years - with his England appearances (66@25K a time) and his wife/girlfriends career established, he may well hang up his boots for good when he eventually leaves Quins.

Robshaw, Brown, Care and Lambert are the last of the old (playing) guard that represent our winning 2012 team: they will surely be going this/next year and will create some space under the cap. It just needs to be spent carefully and judiciously...
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