Post by: RodneyRegis on Monday 01-Apr-2024, 13:38*
Post by: Brown Bottle on Monday 01-Apr-2024, 13:18*
I completely misread the tone of your post - sorry about that, Rodney!
Post by: Brown Bottle on Monday 01-Apr-2024, 05:02*
OK, so you haven't seen it - but you thought you'd impart your knowledge anyway? Not like you :)
Have a watch. It's an interesting one. As far as I can see, the ball having left the tackle area removed the offside line, if indeed there even was a tackle or anyone over the ball - but I'm sure there are plenty with a more intricate understanding of the joke book we call the current laws.
https://passport.world.rugby/laws-of-the-game/laws-by-number/14-tackle/
Don’t take the **** - you clearly thought a ruck was necessary.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Monday 01-Apr-2024, 01:22*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Monday 01-Apr-2024, 01:16*
I haven't seen that incident but there can be an offside line at a tackle - you don't need a ruck.
OK, so you haven't seen it - but you thought you'd impart your knowledge anyway? Not like you :)
Have a watch. It's an interesting one. As far as I can see, the ball having left the tackle area removed the offside line, if indeed there even was a tackle or anyone over the ball - but I'm sure there are plenty with a more intricate understanding of the joke book we call the current laws.
https://passport.world.rugby/laws-of-the-game/laws-by-number/14-tackle/
Post by: Brown Bottle on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 23:32*
Hopefully the ref who incorrectly sent Fin Smith to the bin for playing the ball from an offside position despite no ruck having been formed will do the right thing and rescind sarries' try bonus point from Friday night.
I haven't seen that incident but there can be an offside line at a tackle - you don't need a ruck.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 21:39*
Hopefully the ref who incorrectly sent Fin Smith to the bin for playing the ball from an offside position despite no ruck having been formed will do the right thing and rescind sarries' try bonus point from Friday night.
Sure, no problem with that as long as the rule is consistently applied.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 19:15*
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 19:00*
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 18:38*
It happens.
I'll bookmark this...
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 18:26*
More homer refereeing. Blight on the game.
Again, the ref was correct in his call that it was too late to reverse it. The TMO spotted it too late. It happens. But then absolutely no one expects you to be doing anything other than muck flinging on here.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 18:15*
As soon as he saw it he mentioned it to the ref. They had a conversation about it.
More homer refereeing. Blight on the game.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 18:10*
The TMO never had a chance to tell the referee he'd made a huge mistake.
You're getting the hang of this now. Much more subtle.
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 17:45*
The TMO never had a chance to tell the referee he'd made a huge mistake.
As soon as he saw it he mentioned it to the ref. They had a conversation about it.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 17:20*
The officials really messed up in the game yesterday. In many ways. Doesn’t change the result.
Actually, it probably would if you strike off the Lynagh try.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 17:18*
Well, apart from the TMO telling the ref, who rightly told him that it was too long ago. You can't rule out a try when nothing was wrong with the passage of play that led to the try, but instead with a previous decision. You'd never complete a game.
The TMO never had a chance to tell the referee he'd made a huge mistake.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 17:02*
It's a common occurance for the ref to check with an assistant on a grounding, and it makes sense as well.
That's exactly my point. He didn't check. The ref declared it held up. The TJ overruled him. Absolutely I'd expect it to go to the tmo, but if the ref thinks it's held up I'd say it's pretty usual to stick with his own infield decision.
Again, the live view was the TJ view. They used the refs view for the tmo replay. Presumably because the live TJ view was inconclusive.
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 16:46*
The scenario I described was not a conspiracy. What I described was cheating. You clearly don't understand what conspiracy means.
Whereas you'll have a superb understanding of cheating...
Post by: JammyGit on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 16:19*
TJ missed it. TMO ignored it.
Well, apart from the TMO telling the ref, who rightly told him that it was too long ago. You can't rule out a try when nothing was wrong with the passage of play that led to the try, but instead with a previous decision. You'd never complete a game.
Post by: fatgat on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 16:09*
You are very silly.
An understatement IMO. I admire your diplomacy.
Post by: raedarius on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:57*
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:52*
Yes. What on earth was going on with that team of officials? They didn't let the ref make a decision all game. Ref call ls it held up, touch judge says he had a grounding. So infield decision is try. Absolutely no way that is awarded if the ref is allowed to referee.
It's a common occurance for the ref to check with an assistant on a grounding, and it makes sense as well.
Post by: QuinJoe on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:26*
“Telegraph Sport understands the controversy stemmed from a time-keeping error by fourth official Charlie Gayther and that there was no pressure from Harlequins to have Herbst return sooner than permitted. At the time of the lock’s reintroduction, the hosts had also just had wing Louis Lynagh sent to the sin bin.”
Post by: Mayor West on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:13*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:11*
https://twitter.com/talkMacca/status/1774403397963198512?t=JNVfd1g9wU5YInjd6NnQGA&s=19
This is looking worse the more detail that comes out.
What detail 🙄
Post by: A222Quin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 15:08*
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 14:47*
This is looking worse the more detail that comes out.
Post by: Mayor West on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 14:37*
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 14:26*
So what?
TJ missed it. TMO ignored it.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 14:17*
The Lynagh try came directly from an offside penalty against Bath that was in fact a Harlequins knock-on.
So what?
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 14:13*
Erm... yes - every week.I don't recall the AR over-ruling the ref. My memory is that the ref asked his assistant, and received an answer.None of the cameras had the same angle as the AR. Different angles show different things.
TBH, your clarification sounds even more like "a try was scored against Quins and I don't like it" than the original post did.
OK mate. I mean it's pretty clear from my posting that isn't what I'm saying, but you go for it.
'every week'...
By the way, the live camera angle was exactly behind the touch judge. For some reason they didn't use that one for the replays. Makes you think.
Oh and your recollection is completely wrong.
But apart from that, thanks for your rather weird forensic analysis of my post.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:58*
Possibly that's how it's supposed to work. But it's not exactly something you see often is it. The ref called it held up. He didn't say 'anyone got a grounding?'
Sure, the touch judge might suggest he has a look, but I've never seen him overrule and change the question. The onfield decision was always likely to stand, given the speed at which it all happened and the mechanics involved.
I am happy to suggest that the touch judge didn't have a grounding, at all, as the slow mo camera didn't pick it up.
The Lynagh try came directly from an offside penalty against Bath that was in fact a Harlequins knock-on.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:53*
says "no conspiracy implied".
Immediately implies a conspiracy.
And to answer your question at the end: "No"
Happy now? Or do you still think there should be a fine for Quins, for... allowing a player to listen to the official?
The scenario I described was not a conspiracy. What I described was cheating. You clearly don't understand what conspiracy means.
However, sweeping any cheating by Quins under the carpet and blaming it on an error by the official instead would be a conspiracy.
Post by: Which Tyler on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:51*
Possibly that's how it's supposed to work. But it's not exactly something you see often is it. The ref called it held up. He didn't say 'anyone got a grounding?'Erm... yes - every week.
Sure, the touch judge might suggest he has a look, but I've never seen him overrule and change the question. The onfield decision was always likely to stand, given the speed at which it all happened and the mechanics involved.I don't recall the AR over-ruling the ref. My memory is that the ref asked his assistant, and received an answer.
I am happy to suggest that the touch judge didn't have a grounding, at all, as the slow mo camera didn't pick it up.None of the cameras had the same angle as the AR. Different angles show different things.
TBH, your clarification sounds even more like "a try was scored against Quins and I don't like it" than the original post did.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:40*
Isn't that... exactly how the team of officials is supposed to work?
Ref didn't have a grounding, his assistant, did, so the on-field call is try; TMO can't tell, so it stays with the onfield decision.
What's the problem? (other than a try being scored against Quins)
Possibly that's how it's supposed to work. But it's not exactly something you see often is it. The ref called it held up. He didn't say 'anyone got a grounding?'
Sure, the touch judge might suggest he has a look, but I've never seen him overrule and change the question. The onfield decision was always likely to stand, given the speed at which it all happened and the mechanics involved.
I am happy to suggest that the touch judge didn't have a grounding, at all, as the slow mo camera didn't pick it up.
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:33*
Buck stops with the officials, nothing to do with Quins. Even IF they were pressured for Irne to get back on (well maybe they need more resilience then) but no player enters the field without being allowed and “signed off” so to speak by the officials. Whether it be a sub, blood reversal or what ever.
We would be livid if the shoe was on the other foot and then Irne scored a winning try handing us the game in those 3 minutes, but let’s face it Irne being on the field was probably more beneficial for Bath considering he is a penalty magnet
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:30*
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/content/pgmot-statement-harlequins-v-bath
The RFU Professional Game Match Officials Team (PGMOT) acknowledge and apologise for an error during the Gallagher Premiership match between Harlequins v Bath where a yellow card sanction resulted in Irné Herbst returning to the pitch approximately three minutes too soon.
We would like to apologise to both teams for this mistake. As is the usual process the PGMOT will review all games to ensure continued improvement and learnings.
The result of the match remains final.
I'm willing to forgive them on this one occasion.
Post by: Which Tyler on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:14*
says "no conspiracy implied".
No conspiracy being implied. The buck stops with the 4th official but were they pressured by home team officials to get Herbst on as Lynagh came off?
Immediately implies a conspiracy.
And to answer your question at the end: "No"
Happy now? Or do you still think there should be a fine for Quins, for... allowing a player to listen to the official?
Post by: raedarius on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 13:01*
No conspiracy being implied. The buck stops with the 4th official but were they pressured by home team officials to get Herbst on as Lynagh came off?
You are very silly.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:52*
That person is the 4th official.
The officials team have acknowledged their mistake.
No need to go looking for a conspiracy when ****-up has already been admitted by those who made it.
No conspiracy being implied. The buck stops with the 4th official but were they pressured by home team officials to get Herbst on as Lynagh came off?
Post by: Which Tyler on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:34*
Somebody, almost certainly a member of the Quins staff, will have told him to rejoin the field.That person is the 4th official.
The officials team have acknowledged their mistake.
No need to go looking for a conspiracy when ****-up has already been admitted by those who made it.
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:19*
On what basis?
I very much doubt that Herbst instigated his own return to the field of play. Somebody, almost certainly a member of the Quins staff, will have told him to rejoin the field. The fact it happened when Lynagh was leaving the pitch looks very dodgy.
Imagine you were a Bath fan and how you'd feel about the situation.
Post by: Which Tyler on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:14*
Yes. What on earth was going on with that team of officials? They didn't let the ref make a decision all game. Ref call ls it held up, touch judge says he had a grounding. So infield decision is try. Absolutely no way that is awarded if the ref is allowed to referee.Isn't that... exactly how the team of officials is supposed to work?
Ref didn't have a grounding, his assistant, did, so the on-field call is try; TMO can't tell, so it stays with the onfield decision.
What's the problem? (other than a try being scored against Quins)
Post by: BedfordshireBoy on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:09*
On what basis?Ignore him.
Post by: A222Quin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:03*
Post by: Marsile on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 12:01*
https://www.premiershiprugby.com/content/pgmot-statement-harlequins-v-bath
The RFU Professional Game Match Officials Team (PGMOT) acknowledge and apologise for an error during the Gallagher Premiership match between Harlequins v Bath where a yellow card sanction resulted in Irné Herbst returning to the pitch approximately three minutes too soon.
We would like to apologise to both teams for this mistake. As is the usual process the PGMOT will review all games to ensure continued improvement and learnings.
The result of the match remains final.
Should be a fine for Harlequins really.
Post by: AdrianB on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 11:52*
The RFU Professional Game Match Officials Team (PGMOT) acknowledge and apologise for an error during the Gallagher Premiership match between Harlequins v Bath where a yellow card sanction resulted in Irné Herbst returning to the pitch approximately three minutes too soon.
We would like to apologise to both teams for this mistake. As is the usual process the PGMOT will review all games to ensure continued improvement and learnings.
The result of the match remains final.
Post by: KentQuin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 10:47*
Probably need to win 3 out of the remaining 4, although 14 mors points might do it (two 5 point wins and two 2 point defeats).
Topsy-turvy league. I think Saints have enough of a points buffer that they'll got top four and difficult to see Sarries missing out. The other two places almost impossible to call.
Post by: SunburyQuin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 10:40*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 10:39*
One thing that annoyed me about the Herbst yellow was the lead up to it.
Bath awarded a pen at the lineout which is fair enough, play comes in field and we turn the ball over, ref blows and Andre throws the ball to Finn Russel who then goes quick.
He should have just put th ball on the floor. Stupid of Andre and for me this was the turning point in the game where we really seemed to lose focus.
Yes I agree, and no attempt whatsoever to get back behind the line (which they still had plenty of time to do even with Russell getting the ball).
It totally smacked of "we've won, let's have a rest".
Post by: AdrianB on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 09:01*
Bath awarded a pen at the lineout which is fair enough, play comes in field and we turn the ball over, ref blows and Andre throws the ball to Finn Russel who then goes quick.
He should have just put th ball on the floor. Stupid of Andre and for me this was the turning point in the game where we really seemed to lose focus.
Post by: A222Quin on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 08:41*
Disagree on the Herbst comments. I think he's performed well for us.
For me, Matthews wasn’t the same sort of player as Herbst. More a good line out operator and rangy second row with a reasonable turn of pace. He had no edge whatsoever from what I could see. Think he suffered from being thrust into the team when George Robson was pretty much our only senior second row.
Anyway back to Irne, he’s generally decent but has more than an average penchant for a daft penalty or yellow. Plenty of set piece solidity and physical menace but not a huge amount else.
Post by: Quinky on Sunday 31-Mar-2024, 03:55*
Oh yeah, he’s a big guy and does what you’d expect for that size, but I think overall lacks a smart rugby brain to succeed at this level. Charlie Matthews was a big guy but even had a bit more about him in that roleDisagree on the Herbst comments. I think he's performed well for us.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 23:13*
Danny's kicking in the last 20 was woeful I'm afraid.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 23:10*
Pretty sure it was a lot longer than that. They scored and had plenty of ball in that time.
Herbst was at the lineout which came from the pk from lynagh's yellow. 4 minutes early, but we actually didn't go down to 13 at any point.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:57*
Post by: The Absolute Quintet on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:52*
Just don’t think the coaches get the subbing right or the tactics. Second half needs to be controlled. Keep doing the basic stuff that had worked well, such as the aerial game. Care switches off, is shattered, whatever, get a 9 on that can pump it up. Max isn’t no2 and he won’t cut a side apart but he can kick ok.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:44*
Herbst was an obvious yellow. Lynagh one looked harsh to me. Was it?
Th real joke decision was when the ref called their try held up. Touch judge intervened, once again, in favour of bath. Ref then awards try despite no clear footage of try being scored. Unless tmo had something not being shown in the ground. Possible forward pass to "scorer" not reviewed either. Both touch judges were refereeing more than the guy in the middle. Ref seemed to favour bath.
When quins start to let teams back in, they often can't stop the rot. Not sure what the coaches can do. Where was the on field leadership. All it needed was to stop kicking straight to them. Kick to touch or along ground, or just keep hold for a few phases.
Yes. What on earth was going on with that team of officials? They didn't let the ref make a decision all game. Ref call ls it held up, touch judge says he had a grounding. So infield decision is try. Absolutely no way that is awarded if the ref is allowed to referee.
Post by: Quinspirational on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:16*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:13*
Bath can feel hard done by. I hope no cheating was involved, leaves a bitter taste if that happened.
Haha, fair play
Post by: T-Bone on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 22:12*
Lynagh's was definitely yellow. Just flapped a hand at the ball to knock it forward with a clear overlap out wide
Fair enough. Didn't look as blatant to me as some but wasn't much complaining in the ground
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 21:50*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 21:49*
Bath can feel hard done by. I hope no cheating was involved, leaves a bitter taste if that happened.
Lost your login to the Saints board?
Post by: T-Bone on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 21:21*
Th real joke decision was when the ref called their try held up. Touch judge intervened, once again, in favour of bath. Ref then awards try despite no clear footage of try being scored. Unless tmo had something not being shown in the ground. Possible forward pass to "scorer" not reviewed either. Both touch judges were refereeing more than the guy in the middle. Ref seemed to favour bath.
When quins start to let teams back in, they often can't stop the rot. Not sure what the coaches can do. Where was the on field leadership. All it needed was to stop kicking straight to them. Kick to touch or along ground, or just keep hold for a few phases.
Post by: Wildman on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:49*
Post by: Wildman on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:44*
Post by: Marsile on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:40*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:34*
Either way I haven't seen a team being ripped to pieces by 50-22s like that in a short space. Of time at any point since the law was brought in. It was the equivalent of giving away a penalty in midfield, because they would never have kicked points anyway.
Before today I never had an issue with 50-22s but it was basically a cheat code for bath in those closing stages.
One was a bunch of bizarre bounces on a transition play iirc but the Russell one was a peach of a kick in response to how Quins were set up. If you can do it...
Regardless of whether it's happening to a team I support, it's a rubbish law that gives far too much advantage in what is sometimes checkmate scenarios.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:25*
Before today I never had an issue with 50-22s but it was basically a cheat code for bath in those closing stages.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:20*
No no.
I mean - if the world 15 fly half is kicking 50-22s then don't give him the ball, and if you must then absolutely don't leave gaps all over the back field. He kicked what, 4 50-22s to the NE corner in the last 15 minutes? The response is to leave a winger back.
He kicked one and Gallagher kicked one. There may have been a third (I think I must have missed one because someone elsewhere suggested it was 3 not 2). I think it's easier to say don't give him the ball when you're clearing ball than to cover the potential 50/22 at all times when a man down, when they've been exploiting us out wide with Lawrence and the wings.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:17*
Do you mean the world’s best 10 (fly half).
Though I agree. Kick it out and make them work off the line out in their own half.
World 15 - as in XV.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:16*
Yeah, that is also a bad law change.
The majority of 50/22s come shortly after a team regains possession. It's harder to see the impact it's meant to have on the game when the primary occurrences are when good attacking ball is kicked away because the risk/reward ratio has been skewed massively in favour of kicking.
I've been banging on about these for ages and I can't wait for it to be reverted, even if I fully admire the skill behind it (alright, sometimes it's just a lucky bounce, but still!)
For me they were both extremely blunt instruments, but at least attempting to deal with genuine problems in the game.
I'd move 50-22 to 60-22, and I'd allow attacking teams to recycle if they could where the ball was held up, and 8f unable I'd give them a tap 10m out.
Post by: KiltedQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:15*
No no.
I mean - if the world 15 fly half is kicking 50-22s then don't give him the ball, and if you must then absolutely don't leave gaps all over the back field. He kicked what, 4 50-22s to the NE corner in the last 15 minutes? The response is to leave a winger back.
Do you mean the world’s best 10 (fly half).
Though I agree. Kick it out and make them work off the line out in their own half.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:12*
He tackled Russell from a quick tap having not retreated. It was dumb.yeah, yellowest of the yellow.
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:10*
There's no question he hits like a truck and he is probably an extremely powerful scrummager. But yes, he's about the standard I'd expect from a guy who was playing in Italy.
Oh yeah, he’s a big guy and does what you’d expect for that size, but I think overall lacks a smart rugby brain to succeed at this level. Charlie Matthews was a big guy but even had a bit more about him in that role
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:09*
It's a huge territory gain and gives them possession as well. What response is there?
Difficult the cover the space required with a man down when the opposition has ruthlessly exploited any space out wide. It's excellent play, obviously, but it's a law I will go to my grave believing it has no place in rugby so I'm predisposed to believe it's difficult thing to prevent in many circumstances. It is a huge momentum swing, either way.
No no.
I mean - if the world 15 fly half is kicking 50-22s then don't give him the ball, and if you must then absolutely don't leave gaps all over the back field. He kicked what, 4 50-22s to the NE corner in the last 15 minutes? The response is to leave a winger back.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:04*
Herbst for his enforcer role in my view is a lame duck, and seems to constantly give stupid penalties away.
There's no question he hits like a truck and he is probably an extremely powerful scrummager. But yes, he's about the standard I'd expect from a guy who was playing in Italy.
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 20:01*
He tackled Russell from a quick tap having not retreated. It was dumb.
Herbst for his enforcer role in my view is a lame duck, and seems to constantly give stupid penalties away.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:48*
I get more annoyed about held up being a goal line drop out. I kind of see what 50/22s are aiming to achieve but I’m not sure it was a rule change that was needed. Then again I would say that after today wouldn’t I…
Yeah, that is also a bad law change.
The majority of 50/22s come shortly after a team regains possession. It's harder to see the impact it's meant to have on the game when the primary occurrences are when good attacking ball is kicked away because the risk/reward ratio has been skewed massively in favour of kicking.
I've been banging on about these for ages and I can't wait for it to be reverted, even if I fully admire the skill behind it (alright, sometimes it's just a lucky bounce, but still!)
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:39*
Why did Irne go to the bin, was sat in South Stand and thought it was an offside at the lineout and didn’t think we were on a warning. Was there some sort of foul play?
He tackled Russell from a quick tap having not retreated. It was dumb.
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:39*
It's a huge territory gain and gives them possession as well. What response is there?
Difficult the cover the space required with a man down when the opposition has ruthlessly exploited any space out wide. It's excellent play, obviously, but it's a law I will go to my grave believing it has no place in rugby so I'm predisposed to believe it's difficult thing to prevent in many circumstances. It is a huge momentum swing, either way.
I get more annoyed about held up being a goal line drop out. I kind of see what 50/22s are aiming to achieve but I’m not sure it was a rule change that was needed. Then again I would say that after today wouldn’t I…
Post by: J Scott on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:39*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:28*
Also, reading this thread you'd think there was absolutely no response to teams kicking 50-22s.
It's a huge territory gain and gives them possession as well. What response is there?
Difficult the cover the space required with a man down when the opposition has ruthlessly exploited any space out wide. It's excellent play, obviously, but it's a law I will go to my grave believing it has no place in rugby so I'm predisposed to believe it's difficult thing to prevent in many circumstances. It is a huge momentum swing, either way.
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:27*
Maybe they should be more concerned with the first 55, that cost them the game.
Indeed. For all we were good, Bath were all over the place.
I can’t remember a season as mad as this in a long time. Lots of crazy games week after week.
Post by: honkytonk on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:25*
Yep, I understood all timing was to do with the officials as well. Toys flying over there though…
Maybe they should be more concerned with the first 55, that cost them the game.
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:23*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:22*
Pleas estop. We were down to 13 for about 6 seconds before Ernie came back on.
Pretty sure it was a lot longer than that. They scored and had plenty of ball in that time.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:21*
Post by: honkytonk on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:16*
Talking of Irne… lots of complaint on the Bath board that Irne didn’t serve his 10 minutes? Naturally Bloodgate is being mentioned….
Surely all down to the 4th official. Dont see how Quins are at fault
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:08*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 19:04*
We beat Bath and were dominating for 55 mins or so. Of course it becomes difficult when you go down to 13…
Give them a break…they got 5 points today!
Pleas estop. We were down to 13 for about 6 seconds before Ernie came back on.
Post by: KentQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:42*
Right back in the mix for the play-offs.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:39*
Post by: A222Quin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:36*
The first half was absolutely superb. Lots of all round goodness and ultimately that was enough. I do have to agree with some posters that some thing doesn’t seem right though.
Glad I went to The Stoop and didn’t have to listen to Austin commentating. At times he has some cracking insight but he now seems to be turning into the bloke in the corner of the pub that is ‘right about everything no matter what the subject is and doesn’t half like telling you about it.’ The sun was shining, Bath brought a solid contingent and we got 5 points. Bet we live to regret their 2 though…
Post by: Albig on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:32*
Give them a break…they got 5 points today!
Post by: Marsile on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:30*
Quote
The Telegraph:
'The South African lock was sent to the sin-bin after 63 minutes and 52 seconds of what turned into one of the matches of the season.
Herbst should have been off the field for 10 minutes, but television pictures showed him returning to the action after 70 minutes and 51 seconds - a full three minutes early.
...
(JVG) said: “I flagged with the referee after the game but there is not a lot he can do on the pitch, he wasn’t even aware of it. We made the fourth official aware, it was a massive call in the context of the game with the player that came back on making the tackle in the corner. With a yellow card you are supposed to be off for 10 minutes not seven. It is going to go to Paul Hull and I will let the process follow its course.”
Post by: Seequin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 18:22*
We just seemed to lose any game management and leadership. Bath improved a bit but basically if you give any side acres of space to run into in the last quarter of a game they will score tries.
Of course it has happened before. I have been a season ticket holder long enough to know that a 20 point lead with 20 minutes to go is never a guaranteed win at the stoop. But this afternoon was one of the worst collapses I have seen.
I just wonder where the coaches are.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:54*
OK.
I think you're the only one who thinks there are mitigating circumstances to nearly throwing away a 35 point lead in the last 20 minutes of the game, and looking like conceding a try every time the opposition got the ball, but a win's a win.
Just hope we don't finish a point behind bath in the table.
To be fair, we ended that game putting pressure on Bath and having repeat possessions in their 22, but generally yeah, we looked like conceding all the time for much of the final quarter of the game, because the best fly half in world rugby allied to Ollie Lawrence and Alfie Barbeary turns out to be an extremely potent threat when you have 13 people on the pitch and have made a bunch of changes reacting to a different picture.
Quins were responsible for being down to 13 in the first place so it's not like I'm saying that it happened by accident or anything, just that in the context of a match it's a huge difference from rocking up to the spurs stadium and playing like you don't give a toss from the first minute, with absolutely no justification for it. No huge lead causing complacency, no sudden disadvantage due to cards, no being caught on the hop by a combination of events. Just turning up and playing against a top side like we didn't want to be there, from the first minute.
THAT was what unacceptable looks like.
So no, I don't think this was anything like that. I think it downplays just how bad last week was. This was what happens when you think you've won the game already and then a bunch of stuff happens very quickly to put you in an extremely dangerous situation with very limited ways of changing what's happening.
If nothing else, I hope it drives home the point about how stupid yellow cards can cost a team, and how compound errors can throw away an hour's work.
Post by: WellingQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:47*
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:46*
I'm really pleased we won, especially after sitting in spurs stadium last week.
Sorry but I can't believe this point of view. We absolutely stopped playing, the scores of both halves explain that.
33-3 at half time.
Lost the second half 7-33.
I dont understand how that is seen as anything other than a disastrous half where we completely gave up and collapsed.
Agreed. Still I guess we didn’t give up for the whole game, but let’s be frank we’ve had 80 points plus put on us in two games. You won’t win consistently with that approach
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:43*
I think you're the only one who thinks there are mitigating circumstances to nearly throwing away a 35 point lead in the last 20 minutes of the game, and looking like conceding a try every time the opposition got the ball, but a win's a win.
Just hope we don't finish a point behind bath in the table.
Post by: WellingQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:42*
Sorry but I can't believe this point of view. We absolutely stopped playing, the scores of both halves explain that.
33-3 at half time.
Lost the second half 7-33.
I dont understand how that is seen as anything other than a disastrous half where we completely gave up and collapsed.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:31*
so surely then the answer is... Don't take your foot off the gas!
Another 10 minutes and we lose that game, no doubt.
Another 60 and we win, I reckon.
Obviously you shouldn't take your foot off the gas but it can and does happen. I don't think we stopped playing - Bath earned a couple of tries, but more importantly Herbst with his dumb yellow and Lynagh with his even more dumb yellow put us in an absolute hole against a team with nothing to lose and with some subs playing out of their skins. Two very daft pieces of ill discipline, a couple of poor kicks, two 50/22s, a few rough decisions, and all of a sudden it's a completely different story. When the opposition has players like Lawrence who were previously locked up tight but with space to work in thanks to the cards, and a guy like Russell who is probably the best in the world at exploiting defences, what did you expect to happen?
The moral of the story is don't give Finn Russell momentum and space to play with, I reckon.
Post by: WellingQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:26*
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:23*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:23*
Don't be silly. A team miles ahead getting caught cold with a pair of yellows and some real impact from the opposition bench when the starters had been completely demoralised, is nowhere near as bad as rocking up to a glamour game against bitter rivals and looking like you don't want to be there from the first minute.so surely then the answer is... Don't take your foot off the gas!
Austin can bleat all he likes about luck but Reid alone was extraordinarily lucky to get away with the various penalties on quins attacks, let alone the insane lineout move to an extremely offside Lawrence (and a pair of 50/22s with friendly bounces!)
Obviously I'm not thrilled by what happened, but Bath have a lot of good players and when you take your foot off the gas it can be hard to get back on it.
Another 10 minutes and we lose that game, no doubt.
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:22*
28 points in 17 minutes.that is absolutely unforgivable. Against any opposition, let alone one we've put to the sword for an hour.
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:20*
Come on. I haven't got a replay but we were what, 40-3 or 40-8 up with 15 or 20 left? Best case we've conceded 25 in 20.
I know, I was watching the game. It's nothing like last week, be serious. A team simply not showing up in that fashion is inexcusably dreadful, an absolute embarrassment. A team previously running riot conceding a hatful of points in a short space of time just doesn't compare. It is extremely difficult to wrest back momentum when you're down to 13 men and their fresh subs are having a huge impact.
Post by: Marsile on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:18*
open the other eye mate
(https://media.tenor.com/FB9ELbuyYnQAAAAM/irony-meter.gif)
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:16*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:10*
Don't be silly. A team miles ahead getting caught cold with a pair of yellows and some real impact from the opposition bench when the starters had been completely demoralised, is nowhere near as bad as rocking up to a glamour game against bitter rivals and looking like you don't want to be there from the first minute.Come on. I haven't got a replay but we were what, 40-3 or 40-8 up with 15 or 20 left? Best case we've conceded 25 in 20.
Austin can bleat all he likes about luck but Reid alone was extraordinarily lucky to get away with the various penalties on quins attacks, let alone the insane lineout move to an extremely offside Lawrence (and a pair of 50/22s with friendly bounces!)
Obviously I'm not thrilled by what happened, but Bath have a lot of good players and when you take your foot off the gas it can be hard to get back on it.
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:09*
Post by: dittonquin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:06*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:05*
Complacency, badly timed subs, some atrocious refereeing and above all some awful kicking almost undoes so much great work.
Would have been very happy with that score before but almost feels like a loss
I hope the team feels the same, because if their reaction to a loss is what we saw today, I'd be happy with more of the same next time!
Post by: T-Bone on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:02*
Would have been very happy with that score before but almost feels like a loss
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:02*
That second half was worse than anything we saw last week. Something stinks.
Don't be silly. A team miles ahead getting caught cold with a pair of yellows and some real impact from the opposition bench when the starters had been completely demoralised, is nowhere near as bad as rocking up to a glamour game against bitter rivals and looking like you don't want to be there from the first minute.
Austin can bleat all he likes about luck but Reid alone was extraordinarily lucky to get away with the various penalties on quins attacks, let alone the insane lineout move to an extremely offside Lawrence (and a pair of 50/22s with friendly bounces!)
Obviously I'm not thrilled by what happened, but Bath have a lot of good players and when you take your foot off the gas it can be hard to get back on it.
Post by: FatQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 17:01*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:59*
All over, some good work again by Marcus to disrupt, then good work again to pin Bath back, before we steal the lineout and end the game.we gave them 2 points, and came very close to losing the game. Absolutely horrendous.
Funny game - can understand why we took the foot off the gas the way we did, because Bath were not in the game at all. But the Bath subs didn't get that memo and our yellows were very stupid, so we had a very exciting last twenty instead.
Not going to whine too much about that finish, because we picked up a bonus point win.
Austin still complaining that bath were unlucky - open the other eye mate
Post by: Quinto on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:59*
Post by: Quinten Poulsen on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:58*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:57*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:55*
Funny game - can understand why we took the foot off the gas the way we did, because Bath were not in the game at all. But the Bath subs didn't get that memo and our yellows were very stupid, so we had a very exciting last twenty instead.
Not going to whine too much about that finish, because we picked up a bonus point win.
Austin still complaining that bath were unlucky - open the other eye mate
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:50*
Post by: Quinto on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:50*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:48*
Bath score again! Thanks to another 50/22! I really hate that law!
Post by: Quinto on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:46*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:45*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:42*
Bath get the bonus point try albeit from a hugely illegal lineout play, which is deeply, deeply annoying. You can't defend long lineouts if the attack is allowed to stand fifteen yards offside.
Game is interesting again!
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:37*
50/22 law is still a complete joke though
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:33*
Herbst carded for making the tackle from the tap, right decision even if they did score
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:30*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:29*
Trenholm has had a few big moments off the bench already...
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:20*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:14*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:03*
Winning the physical battle today. Esterhuizen going forward and Baxter knocking them over in defence.
Walker has also been living up to his nickname in defence, really putting himself about. Everyone is doing their bit, though. Great reaction.
Post by: FatQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 16:01*
Post by: KentQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:59*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:51*
Post by: Quinky on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:46*
Spencer (i think) caught napping and Marcus spots the lack of a sweeper, chips for himself, and scores a lovely solo try
Is that the same Spencer who's apparently the finest scrum half that ever lived?
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:39*
Quins pull a surprise 5 man lineout and run through Bath for the bonus point try inside 30 minutes.
Post by: KentQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:37*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:34*
Lucky for quins, but hey we had two good attacks stopped by illegal play
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:32*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:30*
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:25*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:25*
Gigantic clearance from Care from the lineout, wow
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:23*
Post by: JammyGit on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 15:09*
Post by: J Scott on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 09:09*
The biggest difference for me was defence and being aggressive at every contact, although we all want to see free flowing attacking rugby you’ve got to get defence right and this aspect of the game has been our Achilles heal for many a year. Stats had our D as one of the best this season but we still had the ability to let in too many easy tries.
Hopefully we’ve addressed that for this week and we see a better performance that leads to a win.
Post by: SunburyQuin on Saturday 30-Mar-2024, 08:46*
COYQ'S !!!!!
Post by: A222Quin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 21:47*
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 21:40*
I’m ready for the ineptitude tomorrow
Post by: Quinto on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 19:36*
Post by: Marsile on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 17:50*
Spencer, Russell and Lawrence are the only players who’d make a Sarries starting 15.
Spencer maybe. The other two, absolutely no chance.
Post by: Fursty on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 17:28*
That is a ridiculously strong Bath side. I fear a repeat of Saracens.
Not saying we won’t get a pasting but that Bath side isn’t anywhere near as good on paper as Sarries.
Spencer, Russell and Lawrence are the only players who’d make a Sarries starting 15.
Post by: never sleep on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 17:06*
We’re gonna get mullered
We should have enough to see that lot off!
Post by: SiB on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 16:47*
That being said probably the strongest we could muster, but cant see us getting a win.
Let’s just hope it’s not a whitewash
Post by: Nico Wilson on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 16:37*
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Jacques du Plessis (debut), 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Jaco Coetzee, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Ruaridh McConnochie, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Alfie Barbeary
We’re gonna get mullered
Post by: PhilQuin2 on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 16:16*
That is a ridiculously strong Bath side. I fear a repeat of Saracens.
Yep, agree - we're gonna get Mullered. Splatted. Creamed. Handed our botties. Walloped. Fumped. Clobbered..
Post by: T-Bone on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 14:22*
Post by: Neil Quinnock on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 13:59*
Post by: MaidstoneQuin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 13:36*
Lewies starting is an utter joke in itself.
Great Bath side,
Quins 19 Bath 36
Post by: Bucksquin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 13:34*
Post by: Archquin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 13:15*
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Alfie Barbeary
Post by: KentQuin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 12:59*
Surprised to see a few retained places but injuries still playing a big part
I suspect the chat from the coaches is you let the club down last weekend, now go out and fix it.
I'd liked to have seen Lawday at 6. Not sure why he's out in the cold. Lewies just doesn't look mobile enough these days to be at blindside.
Post by: SunburyQuin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 12:35*
Post by: RodneyRegis on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 12:27*
Hope Marcus doesn't get hurt...
Post by: Archquin on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 12:09*
Post by: Harleys Evil Step Mum on Friday 29-Mar-2024, 12:01*
The forward pack features a reshuffled front-row with props Fin Baxter and Dillon Lewis starting alongside hooker Jack Walker. Joe Launchbury and George Hammond maintain their second-row partnership, with Stephan Lewies and Will Evans on the flanks. Alex Dombrandt resumes at number eight.
Danny Care and Marcus Smith maintain their halves combo, with Andre Esterhuizen and Oscar Beard in the centres. Tyrone Green continues at fullback with Cadan Murley and Louis Lynagh named on the wings.
The Impact Players features the experienced duo of Joe Marler and Will Collier, with centre Lennox Anyanwu and Cameron Anderson returning to the matchday 23.
Director of Rugby Billy Millard commented: "We're excited for Saturday and another great challenge against Bath. The boys have worked hard this week and driven the energy and focus. We're expecting a good response on Saturday in front of another big home crowd."
Click here to read the Matchday Programme. Click here to read the Saxo Match Preview.
Starting XV:
1. Fin Baxter (43)
2. Jack Walker (56)
3. Dillon Lewis (13)
4. Joe Launchbury (18)
5. George Hammond (58)
6. Stephan Lewies (62 - Captain)
7. Will Evans (82)
8. Alex Dombrandt (131)
9. Danny Care (369)
10. Marcus Smith (152)
11. Cadan Murley (107)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (83)
13. Oscar Beard (47)
14. Louis Lynagh (59)
15. Tyrone Green (68)
Impact Players:
16. Sam Riley (46)
17. Joe Marler (277)
18. Will Collier (235)
19. Irne Herbst (39)
20. Will Trenholm (10)
21. Max Green (7)
22. Lennox Anyanwu (21)
23. Cameron Anderson (6)