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Re: Earle
« Reply #15 on: »
Quote from: quinalan on Sunday 14-Apr-2019, 00:13*
ACL means out for the best part of 12 months. Cruel luck.

Luckily, due to the speed that he’ll be able to have his operation and the intensive physio recovery offered, it could be cut down to 6-8 months. Let’s hope so.
Absolutely gutted for him!
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Re: Earle
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: Lyndo76 on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 20:06*
replay looked horrible and clearly in immense amount of pain!  :(

Yeah I’ve never been unfortunate enough to hear a player shout/scream in pain before...sheesh.
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Re: Earle
« Reply #17 on: »
interesting article in Independent about breakdown injuries increasing
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Re: Earle
« Reply #18 on: »
Quote from: Lyndo76 on Monday 15-Apr-2019, 10:13*
interesting article in Independent about breakdown injuries increasing

Blimey, having found it, it's really a terrible opinion mixed with fact bit of nonsense which doesn't help address a serious issue.

There's a headline about breakdown injuries increasing with no facts to back it up (even though it may well turn out to be true). The most recent RFU injury report does indeed show that the number of injuries hasn't changed but their severity has, but it isn't broken down by contact area.

Indeed the data has focused entirely on the tackle - because for the first time the tackler is now injured more often than the person being tackled.

https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/33/22/57/InjurySurveillanceReport2017-18_English.pdf

The article is predicated on the clear-out of Flood (a breakdown injury that is exactly the kind of example we should be talking about) then ties in the serious injuries in our game, none of which occurred in the breakdown and were all completely different types of injury. No law could stop two players on the same side accidentally banging heads, or someone's leg getting caught under them in a tackle or someone dislocating an elbow in contact.

Bit of a weird rant to create about unrelated incidents.

As I say it's a shame because it clearly is an issue that looks like it needs sorting out but there is no empirical evidence as yet showing that it has created a higher incidence of serious injury.

Not sure why I wasted my Monday dissecting a very poor piece of journalism other than it would seem to me it merits some proper investigation and proper writing.

The sub-head says: "Three serious and sickening injuries this weekend are just a latest results from the wild west that is the breakdown." How does this stuff get through?

World Rugby must act fast if referees will not rule the breakdown to the law - and this week’s Premiership shows why | The Independent | The Independent
independent.co.uk
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Re: Earle
« Reply #19 on: »
The article is a little odd though.  It talks about injuries at the breakdown and then mentions the 3 injuries during the Quins game as a backup.  One was a head clash when going for a high ball. 2nd, knee, was in a tackle. Third , elbow, who knows - but I think it was during a tackle.
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Re: Earle
« Reply #20 on: »
Exactly ... Convenient use of injuries to fit a narrative ...
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Re: Earle
« Reply #21 on: »
Back to the subject of Earle, I wonder if we'll see an injury dispensation being brought in for the start of next season. Or whether the cash freed up by Horwill retiring might be used on a back three player. I'd love to see us bring in a pretty serious signing who can play FB/wing. Especially if Brownie does make it onto the plane to Tokyo...
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Re: Earle
« Reply #22 on: »
Quote from: TomBuckQuin on Monday 15-Apr-2019, 13:14*
Back to the subject of Earle, I wonder if we'll see an injury dispensation being brought in for the start of next season. Or whether the cash freed up by Horwill retiring might be used on a back three player. I'd love to see us bring in a pretty serious signing who can play FB/wing. Especially if Brownie does make it onto the plane to Tokyo...

That'll depend on the exact nature of the injury and its' severity. I'v seen some reports saying they weren't sure if it required surgery or not. We're starting the season a week later than normal next season, and I believe we start with the Premiership Cup during the pool stages of the RWC as well) so it's likely that the first Premiership proper games will be end of September, early October. That's 5 & 1/2 months away. *If* Earle's injury isn't as bad as some fear, we could see him returning to fitness in the early stages of the Premiership next season. I'd rather we use the money freed up by Kev retiring to bolster elsewhere, like 2nd row...
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Re: Earle
« Reply #23 on: »
Quote from: Quintessential on Saturday 13-Apr-2019, 19:49*
Gustard says in post-match interview that it's a 'severe knee injury' for Earle so presumably our until next season (Murley was dislocated elbow.)

Interestingly he then says those two have played a lot because of their 'attitude and willingness to learn'. He then immediately namechecks Walker, Visser, R. Chisholm and Ibitoye (in that order) saying 'we've got options and if someone sticks their hand up and says "pick me" then they're going to get picked.'

Implies strongly that attitude is why Walker and Visser haven't been picked so far...

Well Murley stands out a mile off as someone with a high work rate so I'm not surprised to hear that in relation to him.  Not the biggest or the fastest but always gets stuck in physically.  Reminds me a bit of Jack Nowell.   Hadn't realised he'd dislocated his elbow - horrible shame for him.
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Re: Earle
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: Fearless Fred on Monday 15-Apr-2019, 13:31*
That'll depend on the exact nature of the injury and its' severity. I'v seen some reports saying they weren't sure if it required surgery or not. We're starting the season a week later than normal next season, and I believe we start with the Premiership Cup during the pool stages of the RWC as well) so it's likely that the first Premiership proper games will be end of September, early October. That's 5 & 1/2 months away. *If* Earle's injury isn't as bad as some fear, we could see him returning to fitness in the early stages of the Premiership next season. I'd rather we use the money freed up by Kev retiring to bolster elsewhere, like 2nd row...

I doubt the Horwil announcement come out of the blue.  We announced 3 locks with the new signings.  Merrick, Glynn and Horwill out.  What I mean is that the money will prob be accounted for already
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Re: Earle
« Reply #25 on: »
Yeah I think that's why we saw 3 locks in. So whether we think so or not, I reckon Gussy views it as all business done in the second row and is banking on Lamb and South taking another 3 steps up next season to provide competition for places there.
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Re: Earle
« Reply #26 on: »
I still think we have some cash floating around.  Might be hoping to add to it by someone agreeing to go (Cat??).  Reason being, as said before, the offer for B Barrett, the alleged offer of 450k to LCD.  I cant see any of our new signings being that much
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Re: Earle
« Reply #27 on: »
I agree, I just think we'll see bolstering elsewhere if there are to be more incomings. Think Gussy sees Symons/Lewies as being our most frequent first choice pairing with Young, Freeman, Lamb, South all fighting it out for bench and rotation spots. 6 locks is pretty standard depth if you look across the Prem I think - without having seen much of Freeman and Young I'm trying to reserve judgement on our depth in terms of quality there until I've seen them have a few hit outs. I too think we are still a little weak in this area. Nevertheless, I think Gussy is done in the second row.

If you look at numbers across the squad for next season we maybe need another squad player at LH prop with Lambo playing less and less, TH prop if big Josh goes and then I think we're fairly well covered (and this next bit is important...) in terms of numbers at least.

I'm personally just not convinced we have any real quality in our depth at FB. When Mike isn't available it's a massive step down in quality to Chisholm. Morris hasn't really strung enough games together yet so I'm happy to give him more of a chance but he seems to have the injury bug. Lang is not a FB at the moment - either we move him there and play him there frequently or I personally don't feel he's going to have the positional nous required. Reserving judgement on Herron but feels like a longshot to expect him to cement himself as Brownie's successor.

In most other positions we have an obvious deputy. At FB I don't feel like we do. Same can be said for fly half although we're going to have to see what Herron can do. See the following very subjective and by no means definitive breakdown and tell me where you see the weaknesses:

1. Marler (1st choice) / Botta (2nd choice)
2. Baldwin / Crumpton
3. Sinckler / Collier
4. Symons / Freeman or Lamb
5. Lewies / Young
6. Clifford / Lawday
7. Robshaw / Evans
8. Dombrandt / Chisholm

9. Care / Landajo
10. Smith / Herron?
11. Murley / Visser
12. Saili / Tapuai
13. Marchant / Campagnaro
14. Earle / Ibitoye
15. Brown / Chisholm

For me it's still 4/5, 10 and 15.
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Re: Earle
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: Blucherquin on Monday 15-Apr-2019, 10:55*
Blimey, having found it, it's really a terrible opinion mixed with fact bit of nonsense which doesn't help address a serious issue.

There's a headline about breakdown injuries increasing with no facts to back it up (even though it may well turn out to be true). The most recent RFU injury report does indeed show that the number of injuries hasn't changed but their severity has, but it isn't broken down by contact area.

Indeed the data has focused entirely on the tackle - because for the first time the tackler is now injured more often than the person being tackled.

https://www.englandrugby.com/mm/Document/General/General/01/33/22/57/InjurySurveillanceReport2017-18_English.pdf

The article is predicated on the clear-out of Flood (a breakdown injury that is exactly the kind of example we should be talking about) then ties in the serious injuries in our game, none of which occurred in the breakdown and were all completely different types of injury. No law could stop two players on the same side accidentally banging heads, or someone's leg getting caught under them in a tackle or someone dislocating an elbow in contact.

Bit of a weird rant to create about unrelated incidents.

As I say it's a shame because it clearly is an issue that looks like it needs sorting out but there is no empirical evidence as yet showing that it has created a higher incidence of serious injury.

Not sure why I wasted my Monday dissecting a very poor piece of journalism other than it would seem to me it merits some proper investigation and proper writing.

The sub-head says: "Three serious and sickening injuries this weekend are just a latest results from the wild west that is the breakdown." How does this stuff get through?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/club-rugby/premiership-weekend-restuls-world-rugby-injuries-referees-breakdown-nathan-earle-george-furbank-a8869811.html

should have said,  I used the word "interesting" in regards the reporting more than the content, should have used the quotation marks!! As you say, looks poorly (if at all) investigated and just using 3 bad injuries in one game to fit a headline (when all 3 don't actually come under the breakdown issue mentioned).
« Last Edit: Monday 15-Apr-2019, 15:44* by Lyndo76 »
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Re: Earle
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote from: TomBuckQuin on Monday 15-Apr-2019, 14:47*
I agree, I just think we'll see bolstering elsewhere if there are to be more incomings. Think Gussy sees Symons/Lewies as being our most frequent first choice pairing with Young, Freeman, Lamb, South all fighting it out for bench and rotation spots. 6 locks is pretty standard depth if you look across the Prem I think - without having seen much of Freeman and Young I'm trying to reserve judgement on our depth in terms of quality there until I've seen them have a few hit outs. I too think we are still a little weak in this area. Nevertheless, I think Gussy is done in the second row.

If you look at numbers across the squad for next season we maybe need another squad player at LH prop with Lambo playing less and less, TH prop if big Josh goes and then I think we're fairly well covered (and this next bit is important...) in terms of numbers at least.

I'm personally just not convinced we have any real quality in our depth at FB. When Mike isn't available it's a massive step down in quality to Chisholm. Morris hasn't really strung enough games together yet so I'm happy to give him more of a chance but he seems to have the injury bug. Lang is not a FB at the moment - either we move him there and play him there frequently or I personally don't feel he's going to have the positional nous required. Reserving judgement on Herron but feels like a longshot to expect him to cement himself as Brownie's successor.

In most other positions we have an obvious deputy. At FB I don't feel like we do. Same can be said for fly half although we're going to have to see what Herron can do. See the following very subjective and by no means definitive breakdown and tell me where you see the weaknesses:

1. Marler (1st choice) / Botta (2nd choice)
2. Baldwin / Crumpton
3. Sinckler / Collier
4. Symons / Freeman or Lamb
5. Lewies / Young
6. Clifford / Lawday
7. Robshaw / Evans
8. Dombrandt / Chisholm

9. Care / Landajo
10. Smith / Herron?
11. Murley / Visser
12. Saili / Tapuai
13. Marchant / Campagnaro
14. Earle / Ibitoye
15. Brown / Chisholm

For me it's still 4/5, 10 and 15.

agree on the backup to Brown, it's a clear difference when he isn't playing. On Lang though, I might be imagining it but hasn't;t he played at centre before and done that well? again, might be my memory going...
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