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Author Topic: 11th Signing  (Read 3900 times)

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RodneyRegis

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #30 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 14:20* »
It is an interesting point - all white players coming in so far. Nothing more to my point than that and it's not weighted with any judgement either way, just an observation...

It's not interesting at all.
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Only Joe Quin

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #31 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 14:29* »
Well, I'm mildly interested, having not clocked that myself and having an interest in questions of diversity, wherever they arise. Nevertheless it is probably not too significant.

TomBuckQuin

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #32 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 14:37* »
Yup, diversity is always an interesting one - even more so in a sport like ours that's still struggling to shake off perception problems around its traditional upper-middle-class talent pipeline, certainly in England.

Fearless Fred

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #33 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 14:52* »
Thinking back a ways... wasn't Tosh Masson the first (and I believe still the only) Sikh to have played rugby at the top club level?

Gone

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #34 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 15:00* »
Thinking back a ways... wasn't Tosh Masson the first (and I believe still the only) Sikh to have played rugby at the top club level?

In that regard at least we're not cricket, where they still haven't managed to break through to get English Asian players to develop through the leagues despite it being a vastly popular sport across India and Pakistan.

The reasons are totally unsuitable for the internet in that they are complex and not black and white (sic).

The Absolute Quintet

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #35 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 15:56* »
Finally another posh player, our fan base have been rattled by some of the state educated players we've employed recently.

Too right!
No idea but he might be one of the 6th form free scholarships Wellington hands or did hand out, as per Manu. Still reassuringly posh, even if his papa didnít pay!

Bolly-Quin

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #36 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 17:16* »
In that regard at least we're not cricket, where they still haven't managed to break through to get English Asian players to develop through the leagues despite it being a vastly popular sport across India and Pakistan.

???

How about:-

Aquib Afzaal, Kamran Afzaal, Jahid Ahmed, Aadil Ali, Hamza Ali, Kabir Ali, Kadeer Ali, Moeen Ali, Rehan Alikhan, Zafar Ansari, Usman Arshad, Ravi Bopara, Varun Chopra, Duleepsinhji, Haseeb Hameed, Arun Harinath, Jamil Hassan, Mel Hussain, Nasser Hussain, Ateeq Javid, Monty Panesar, Samit Patel, Imran Qayyum, Azeem Rafiq, Ranjitsinhji, Adil Rashid, Arif Saeed, Gurjit Sandhu, Bilal Shafayat, Ajmal Shahzad, Vikram Solanki, Shiv Thakor & Kishen Velani

By 2011, there was 30-40% British-Asian representation in grass roots cricket but by 2014, only 6.2% in First Class cricket, a % that roughly reflected the 7 % of British-Asians in UK population (2011 census)...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/29623717
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honkytonk

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #37 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 17:28* »
Some good players on that list

Gone

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #38 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 19:35* »
???

How about:-

Aquib Afzaal, Kamran Afzaal, Jahid Ahmed, Aadil Ali, Hamza Ali, Kabir Ali, Kadeer Ali, Moeen Ali, Rehan Alikhan, Zafar Ansari, Usman Arshad, Ravi Bopara, Varun Chopra, Duleepsinhji, Haseeb Hameed, Arun Harinath, Jamil Hassan, Mel Hussain, Nasser Hussain, Ateeq Javid, Monty Panesar, Samit Patel, Imran Qayyum, Azeem Rafiq, Ranjitsinhji, Adil Rashid, Arif Saeed, Gurjit Sandhu, Bilal Shafayat, Ajmal Shahzad, Vikram Solanki, Shiv Thakor & Kishen Velani

By 2011, there was 30-40% British-Asian representation in grass roots cricket but by 2014, only 6.2% in First Class cricket, a % that roughly reflected the 7 % of British-Asians in UK population (2011 census)...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/29623717

Blimey. Itís an acknowledged issue by the ECB, how many of those are English players who play for England?

The point wasnít even a criticism of bloody cricket - it was an observation that even when you have a large base of players from a specific background it is still hard to make sure that talent ends in diversity at the highest level.

Which your numbers bear out.

Sheesh.
« Last Edit: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 20:07* by Blucherquin »

Hellequin

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #39 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 21:33* »
It is an interesting conundrum for global sports, how do you spread the game without centralising players contracts. If a player from a lower tier nation is really good they will be brought/bought into a rich league club, if they stay long enough they can play for a more successful and better playing nation.

The original nation loses out on top talent as they and their clubs can't keep players and struggle to progress/improve and then lose out on financial rewards and can't afford to pay better wages.

Quinky

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #40 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 23:01* »
It's not interesting at all.

Agree 100%

Quinky

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #41 on: Friday 22-Mar-2019, 23:12* »
Well, I'm mildly interested, having not clocked that myself and having an interest in questions of diversity, wherever they arise. Nevertheless it is probably not too significant.

"Diversity" (a principle that undermines factors that really matter, in favour of those that really don't), should occur naturally, or not at all.

One only needs to look at the result of quotas on Springbok rugby to know that they damage sport whilst making some people feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and others feel like they've struck a blow for their own personal grievance.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what colour, race, religion or background a player is from. To quote Ken Bates of Chelsea fame, the only equality policy that matters is "if you're good enough, you're in". If that means we end up with a team that's 100% White, or 100% Black, or 100% native American Indian, it really doesn't matter.

poorfour

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #42 on: Saturday 23-Mar-2019, 00:01* »
Hmm - no disrespect to Herron, but I feel like we need a more experienced 10 for Smith and Lang to learn from. Herron is just more of the same. If anything, heís less experienced than they are ...

Iím hoping our final signings will be a bit higher profile. The last few have been a little underwhelming.

A more experienced fly half for the young ones to learn from, eh? If only the club had a vastly experienced top class former international fly half somewhere on its books...

The case for having a more experienced playing fly half is not about mentoring the others, itís about having a cooler head who can control the game because theyíve dealt with pressure situations before. But presumably Gussy and Nev think the kids weíve got are up to the task.
Itís not an exaggeration to say that Smith is already the second best fly half Quins have had in the pro era, and Smith and Lang are very possibly the best pairing weíve had, if only because the drop off in quality between Nev and his understudies was far higher.

I would still have expected them to go for a more experienced option, assuming Catrakilis is off, but I am inclined to trust them if they think this is the better way to go

Bolly-Quin

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #43 on: Saturday 23-Mar-2019, 00:39* »
Blimey. Itís an acknowledged issue by the ECB, how many of those are English players who play for England?

The point wasnít even a criticism of bloody cricket - it was an observation that even when you have a large base of players from a specific background it is still hard to make sure that talent ends in diversity at the highest level.

Which your numbers bear out.

Sheesh.

Indeed it was raised by the ECB back in 2011 - and they have a a desire to get more involved, for which ever reason you may wish to invoke. But as the numbers show, diversity is represented (which you have failed to recognise) - the amount of British Asian players (and they are British Asian, as opposed to Asian imports) reflects the % of Asians in the country. My numbers show they really do indicate diversity. Asians of British decent playing in first class cricket reflect the number of Asians in the country.

Initially, you didn't mention how many players played for England, just " develop through the leagues". And as Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid are doing rather well in the England XI at the moment, Asians would seem to be over-represented, no? (1 out of 6/2 our of 12 = ~ 13%)

Sheesh kebabs are really quite nice.
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Gone

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Re: 11th Signing
« Reply #44 on: Saturday 23-Mar-2019, 08:57* »
Youíre missing the point totally.

40% of grassroots cricketers have an Asian background but only 6% of elite cricketers do.

Itís not about making sure that the sport has an exact replica of the breakdown of the U.K. population is it?

They are trying to address why the number falls so dramatically.

Likewise rugby is working hard to appeal to people who donít go to private school or donít come from an affluent background.

In all cases itís about making sure that the best talent can make it to the top.

I thought cricket was an interesting example but as always on here - itís not - turns out itís yet another trigger word. So weíll move on.

 

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